FV Future

[SR Racing]

For those of you that are sensitive to the idea of Formula First, stop reading.

We have been racing First for 5 years now and it is clearly the future of Entry level open wheel. In this economy, not much is happening, but Formula First is where it is happening. FV rebuilds and parts prices are accelerating and the engines and most other parts have very limited longevity and availabilty . I am sure this will promote lots of cries and denials, but I am in the buisness. It IS a fact and is getting worse. The Brazilain, Mexicans and even Chinese are seeing little future in continuing to supply parts to a 40 year old car.

Certainly the class can continue as is for a few years. But something should be done. You have a committee in place that should be looking to the future. (Not for next weeks price shortages or price increase, but for the next few years.) I have never been a fan of the SCCA's poor business practices and fat beauracracy. And it will take the committee and the FV group to push for action.

A few years ago a handfull of us looked at the FV future and despite lots of naysaying and hate mail we tested a concept that would address the above. I and those others invested thousands of dollars to see if we had something that would work.

After 3 years of great fields, new drivers, conversions and purpose built cars I feel this grass roots effort was unbelievably successful.
I have seen some of the greatest competitive racing in the last 10 FST races that I have seen in any racing in 20 years.

We have an engine package that provides for engines 1/2 the price of an FV, 5 times the reliabilty, 35% more HP, a car that requires
1/4 of the mainteance and set up time, probably 1/2 the operating costs, Just as fun if not more so to drive, and arguably more attractive
to new drivers. We are no longer in a test concept mode and are no longer even interested in the arguments of naysayers. We have
hundreds of hours of track time and races. The above are ALL facts.

FST Races have been won by FV conversions, purposebuilt cars, pro engines and homebuilt engines.

Now some are saying and have said that a few us us may be pushing FST to make more money selling parts.. That IS the point... There are
literally dozens of vendors you can buy your FST parts from. Most all NEW. You don't have to search a junk yard, or buy from 1 or 2 FV
vendors (like me).

If you are a luddite and can't stand ANY movement in technology, or you have a barn full of FV wheels, beams, cylinders etc..
continue to ride out the FV life cycle. It will be there for awhile. If you think you have a few years of racing left or maybe want to
see your kids or their kids in an FV like car, you better start pushing for changes now. A stepped migration plan is possible but
probably not optimal. If I were planning I would just make a drop dead date of 4 or 5 years out where all cars must be converted.
It's not my call but that concept seemed to work well for SRF.

Again.. Your negative comments are ignored. FST is here and well established. We are successful and have met everything we wanted to
accomplish with the class and more. Anyone who has been at an FST race and seen 5 to 8 cars up front exchanging positions every lap with no
winner predictable until the last corner knows what I am talking about. (And then you clean the mirrors, fill it with gas and
do it all over again.)

I suggest the committee and group in general use our experience and success and plan for the future. Do not allow a few to stop all
progress for the future.

[Matt King]

I've got to say, being new to FV, there are a few things that really annoy me about them, most of which are addressed by FST, so it looks pretty good on paper. Too bad the evolution didn't happen over the last couple decades rather than looking like a split from FV. Maybe an evolution could still happen, because it doesn't seem like two air-cooled VW classes is the long-term solution.

[Bill_Bonow]

Too bad the evolution didn't happen over the last couple decades rather than looking like a split from FV.

Matt,

Eight years ago, when FST was at the earliest stage of development, it was conceived as a path for FV evolution. However, as Jim pointed out, many of the FV "old guard" felt Formula First was the "opening of the seventh seal" and the idea caused plenty of friction. Around 2004, it was mutually agreed that a separate class would be best for everyone. That way the market would decide.

The only minor clarification I have for Jim's post is that Formula First is currently in its 5th years as a racing series. Cars have been in SCCA competition since July of 2002 (7 years). To be fair, 2009 is its first year as a nation wide SCCA GCR class.

[remmers]

As much as I like the technology behind FST and would love to be driving one, nobody else in the north east seems to have them, and they're not a national class. Personally, I think you'll get the ball rolling on FST as the evolution of FV once you are a national class and start having fields equal or greater in size to FV. But, until that time, I think it's going to be a long, hard fought, uphill battle.
Just my $.02, do with it what you like.

[Speedsport]

Jim,

That is an awful strong and unjustified e-mail that borders on fear mongering. Of course you would like to see a drop dead date where existing FV's are no longer a class. We all know you have a personal interest in seeing that happen.

Most of what you stated as "fact" is highly exaggerated. Your boasting of the fields you are seeing is only at select and specific races. As Remmers pointed out in his area, FST is almost non-existant, as it is in many places of the country.

I would also question the quality and depth of your fields. Last time I looked, a large portion of the field was still posting slower times then the top FV's. If people can't make a car with "35%" more horsepower turn faster lap times, I question how competitive they are.

Your idea that FST has engines at 1/2 the price is not foward looking at all. What do you think is going to happen when FST starts to get some serious front runners? Do you really think engines prices are going to stay where they are? Not a chance. Look at the IRL for your future. Then what are you going to tell everyone you convinced to buy a FST because it was cheaper when they start complaining about how expensive it is?

So I can save $2500 a year on tires? Great - that's 4 hours of wind tunnel time I can now buy. I've been wanting to get back to the wind tunnel anyway.

FST has worked for a select group of people, mainly because it has stayed as a regional class. IF it becomes a national class and is taken seriously, those things you like to point out about cost will be a thing of the past.

I'm almost insulted by your message, implying that existing FV drivers are "luddites", and your implication that FST has won the battle and we should concede. Last time I checked FV is still the 3rd largest class in SCCA, which in my mind means no way has FST proven itself as the future just yet.

Be carefull what you wish for.

Michael Varacins

[SR Racing]

That is an awful strong and unjustified e-mail that borders on fear mongering. Of course you would like to see a drop dead date where existing FV's are no longer a class. We all know you have a personal interest in seeing that happen.

Exactly what is that personal interest that you apparently know? Opening the market up to another dozen vendors? Selling parts (beams, cylinders, full engines, at 1/2 the price and 1/3 the number of tires?) You need to do some research.

Most of what you stated as "fact" is highly exaggerated.

We have 4+ years of data 50+ races, 15+ drivers. I posted my note after I had all the facts. I don't think you have done near the research. In regards to "fear mongering". I buy 6 to 10 thousands dollars in parts every month. I KNOW what is no longer being built and imported. I see the prices moving at 5 and 10% on each purchase. (and those parts we are having difficulty in even finding.)

Your boasting of the fields you are seeing is only at select and specific races. As Remmers pointed out in his area, FST is almost non-existant, as it is in many places of the country.

Of course. We have leaveraged our numbers doing this. I never implied we were stronger than FV or any other class.

I would also question the quality and depth of your fields. Last time I looked, a large portion of the field was still posting slower times then the top FV's. If people can't make a car with "35%" more horsepower turn faster lap times, I question how competitive they are.

At all our events the experenced drivers have always finished well in front of the FVs. (1:18 at BHF, 1:35 at Gingerman, 1:38 at Mid-O, 1:11 at Nelson, etc.) You question those times? I believe it was you that pointed out one time that we FST was unsafe due to speed? We can easily make them faster with smaller tires, lighter components, etc. We think our weight, induction and tire setup is optimum. You can weigh 250lbs and run with anyone else without a penalty. Other than year one, no Vee has ever finished in front of the top 3 FST's at our races. (and most of the time they are lapped.) Not that this should be an issue. We wanted a car that was easier to maintain, cheaper, and slightly faster than a vee. There is no doubt this was accomplished. I think you need to do some research. BTW, I may have a FST available at one or more of the next few races. I would love to get you in one so that you can post a message re: your real experience in one. Give me a call.

Your idea that FST has engines at 1/2 the price is not foward looking at all. What do you think is going to happen when FST starts to get some serious front runners? Do you really think engines prices are going to stay where they are? Not a chance.

They will go up, I am sure. However, we have no plans to increase our prices and are still building a base FST prepped engine for well under $4000. (carb to clutch) Anyone charging $7000 (vee comparison) is simply ripping the consumer. Our engines have as many wins and finsihes as any other builders with the same lap times. Considering the life expectancy of these (FST) motors the price is pro-rated even more. (I might also point out that these engines are all new parts with I-beam or H-beam rods and several chromoly, forged components. You could build a competitive one for considerably less with stock 1600 parts and develop the same HP. (We have dyno'ed FST engines from multiple builders. They are all competitive.)

So I can save $2500 a year on tires? Great - that's 4 hours of wind tunnel time I can now buy. I've been wanting to get back to the wind tunnel anyway.

Your point?

FST has worked for a select group of people, mainly because it has stayed as a regional class. IF it becomes a national class and is taken seriously, those things you like to point out about cost will be a thing of the past.

Due to unreasonable market bidding the prices will go up on engines. However, we KNOW that there are homebuilt first time builders that have produced their own engines with the same HP. Do you think VW beam prices, transmissions, stock engine components, suspension pieces, that I can buy from dozens of vendors are going to increase simply because FST became popular? And worst case scenero. If engines did go to $7000, it would still be a far cheaper class with longer living engines.

I'm almost insulted by your message, implying that existing FV drivers are "luddites", and your implication that FST has won the battle and we should concede. Last time I checked FV is still the 3rd largest class in SCCA, which in my mind means no way has FST proven itself as the future just yet.

Well people keep pointing that out as the fields get smaller and smaller and prices rise. I think I would be looking to growth and not just holding on. In regards to being a luddite, I left you an out. I also included those that have years of parts supplies. I think we know where you are there. <g>

Be carefull what you wish for.

I already got my wish. A extremely sucessfull, fun, cheap racing venue. I was simply pointing out that the FV guys should also be looking to that.

[SR Racing]

So I can save $2500 a year on tires? Great - that's 4 hours of wind tunnel time I can now buy. I've been wanting to get back to the wind tunnel anyway.

Based upon this statement alone, maybe FST isn't the place for a subset of drivers. Those that want a trophy bad enough to afford wind tunnel testing can probably afford FV until engines get to $20,000. <g>

We have always looked at SCCA racing for fun. Not unlike golf or bowling. As you know we have been quite successful at it. But we wanted it to be fun and not a money pit.

I guess my post was meant for the guys that are more like us.

Mike, you are one of the top drivers out there and it is highly doubtful you will be able to make the IRL or whatever field without a several million dollar sponsor. Shouldn't this just be for fun for you too?

[SR Racing]

Too bad the evolution didn't happen over the last couple decades rather than looking like a split from FV.

Matt,
I agree somewhat. However, what FST actually consists of right now is mostly new guys (that have never raced before), those that were FV inactive, and even conversions from FF. There were very few "splits". But yes, some people took it that way.

Jim

[Speedsport]

Jim,

Racing in SCCA is just for fun, as none of us have much of a chance of making much money in doing so. But the nature of racing is people want to win. Look at the front of the grid in any class at the runoffs, and tell me the people there don't want to win. With the desire to win comes development and effort, and those usually require money. It's the nature of racing. Again, look at the IRL. It was supposed to be the cheaper, cost effective alternative to CART, but once the CART folks switched to IRL, it lost everything it started out to be.

My point on the wind tunnel is people have a fixed amount of money. If you save them some in one area, they will spend it in another. The total cost is the same. So far, FST has been cheap. But thats because it hasn't reached the level where people really want to win yet. If the group of drivers that do want to win migrate to it, the costs will continue to go up in order to stay competitive. It's happened in every single racing series since the dawn of the automobile. I mentioned the lap times to explain that the competitiveness hasn't reached FST yet, not to highlight the speed differences. I don't think the FST's should be much faster for saftey reasons. I've been watching the results, and looking at the lap times over the past few years as a gauge as to how serious FST is getting.

I'm sure they are fun to drive, and do offer some strengths over FV's. But my offense to your original post was I don't think the idea of a drop dead date for the demise of FV needs to be even mentioned yet. That's very premature.

I'm just trying to keep reality in the mix here. As much as people would like to be able to buy a set of tires, an engine, and not do much work on thier car between races, the likelyhood of that happening decreases as the competitivness of the field goes up. People want to win - whether it's SCCA, IRL, F1, or soapbox derby. You can't avoid that.

[hardingfv32-1]

Damm... we don't need Michael back in the wind tunnel!

The trust of Jim's post is correct. Although a drop dead date would be politically impossible, we should be slowly integrating newer style parts into our FV's.

Brian

[Matt King]

Can we start with disc brakes!

[smsazzy]

Submit a request to the CRB. Those against, submit a letter opposing when we are asked for member input.

[brian]

Why do we have to deal with this arguement over and over again? I agree with Stephen, you want something? write the CRB or forget it. Want to toute First?, last time I noticed there is another forum for that. Geeze, give me a break.

[rstackjd]

Let me preface this with I am and have been enamoured (sp?) with the FST concept for a while now, and still haven't ruled out a conversion of my car. Having said that:

I elected to go to FV rather than FST initially for two primary reasons - (1) I found a decient FV for a good price (ie. I got lucky) and (2) I am/was still a little concerned about investing in a car which could end up going the way of (gulp) Shelby Can Am. Although since FST is now a nationwide GCR class that concern has somewhat gone away.

But looking at this season so far, here's what I see - at the April race at BFR there were no FSTs and the same for the May 30/31 race at RA. My first encounter with FSTs this year was last weekend at BFR. While the idea of being the only guy in the class is appealing on the basis that you are guaranteed a trophy, it is a littel bit of a concern to me still. I understand that FST has its own Championship Series which you guys have worked hard on and it looks like a great series, but for those of us who just don't have the time or $ to travel to exotic places like Michigan, Ohio or Kentucky, that would mean that I would only have other FSTs to race against in 2 races this year - this past weekend and the Milwaukee Mile in August. That's a bit of an issue for me at this point. Also, as a regional only class, it limits the races I can go to. While I have no expectation of being able to compete with the serious national FV competitors, it's nice to know that the option to attend those races exists. In FST that door would be closed.

I think I agree with Matt on this in that (from my limited newbie perspective) rather than two VW based classes it might have made more sense to "evolve" FV to the larger engines and other "mods" allowed in FST and maybe have the older FV's become "CFV". But obviosuly that ship has sailed and there was strong opposition from it. Of course if I was heavily invested in FV I'm sure I would have been too - maybe.

Never the less, it's still very tempting.

[SR Racing]

Why do we have to deal with this arguement over and over again? I agree with Stephen, you want something? write the CRB or forget it. Want to toute First?, last time I noticed there is another forum for that. Geeze, give me a break.

Brian, My first post said not to read it if you had a problem with FST. Just don't click it. <g>

In any case my post was not so much for FST specifically, but as input to the future of FV. You may not like FST, but we have tested lots of concepts that should be invaluable to the FV community. We started using drop in ignition points 6 years ago in FST. Eventually you guys picked that up. Via our exagerated torque curve in FST and hundreds of laps of data, we saw a major FV and FST issue in oil sumps. We fixed it. You guys are at least talking about it now. We have tested BJ beams, disc brakes, we have experimented with lots of aftermarket parts and mettalurgy and got a feel for availabilty and pricing and of course, the engine package, carburation, induction, etc.. We have openly shared all of what we have found and since we still consider it "fun" we have no "secrets" You guys can ignore all of that and tell people not to mention FST on this board if you want and thus waste the knowledge and experience. Your call.

I think the ad hoc committe seriously wants to keep the acvw entry level cars popular. I know they are on a tightrope trying to keep everyone happy (and some of them may have vested interests), but I really think they need to look out to the future and maybe ruffle some feathers. FST, may not be the solution for you but you certainly won't see a FV in it's current packaging 6 or 7 years from now. Why not do something now? (Set a drop dead date or migration plan.)

I will continue to sell and support FV as long as I can. (as will the other suppliers, I am sure.) But frankly I would rather see my customers spending $700 a year for tires rather than $3000 and going 2 years between rebuilds, never having to adjust their brakes and replace shoes every few races. So then they can race much more often (or put it in the wind tunnel <g> )

[SR Racing]

My point on the wind tunnel is people have a fixed amount of money. If you save them some in one area, they will spend it in another. The total cost is the same. So far, FST has been cheap. But thats because it hasn't reached the level where people really want to win yet

There is certainly some merit to that. (allthough if you think Rice, Bonow, Schings, Middelege, Seim, etc. aren't competitive you might want to watch a race.)

There is more passing in a typical FST race than the last 10 years of run-offs in FV per car.

What you ignore is that the base price on EVERYTHING in a FST is cheaper (and available) No matter how competitve FST becomes, piston and cylinder sets are not going to double in price (FV price)since they are available readilly from any VW shop. We don't need specially cast drums. No one in FST has broken a rotor yet. We don't need Kevlar brake shoes at $150 a set. (or to replace stock ones every few races.)

Sure the top 10 guys will spend lots more money in whatever. (exotic shoes ETC.) It won't help much based upon our testing. There will be bidding wars on what is perceived to be the fastest engine, carb, etc. etc. But the entry level guy will still be able to race much more affordably and competitively since all parts are cheaper and new. If a guy thinks he will be much faster with what he is told is a 1 hp better engine, let him buy it. But everything remains cheaper and more available with more selection.

Bonow, Carl, and I suspect Rice have spent lots of money trying for the optimum parts. They have some nice pieces and great looking cars and run up front with 3 or 4 others. They are running the stock shoes and same engines and parts that everyone else is running.

When any series become popular there will be more money thrown at it. But when you start at literally 1/2 the seasons investment it will still be cheaper.

[SR Racing]

That's a bit of an issue for me at this point. Also, as a regional only class, it limits the races I can go to. While I have no expectation of being able to compete with the serious national FV competitors, it's nice to know that the option to attend those races exists. In FST that door would be closed.

Bob, You are absolutely right. But I wasn't suggesting for a conversion of FV's to FST. Only a plan for the future. Whether it be FV2, or FVC, etc. Just get ahead of the curve on pricing and availabilty issues. Look at some of the FST concepts.

I find the SCCA REG/NAT concept a little dumb and with little meaning any more. But.. We (FST) are a regional only class. It made the rules system much easier and the buracracy less. Given our limited number of cars, we set a championship venue that leveraged our numbers quite well. Geography and logistics aren't great for everyone. (I just got back at 4AM from the BHF race <g>)

Those issues won't go away until we have more cars. I can't help that. But actually we do not want to see the class go National in the current SCCA organization. I feel we have built a much better package with our OWN rules committee than the SCCA could ever do. I hope it stays that way. We in effect have our own "Run-Offs" at the ARRC at the end of the year.

Again.... I don't care if anyone converts to FST. We have plenty of cars at our races and lots of fun with lots of trophies <g>. My suggestion is that someone start really planning for FV.

[SR Racing]

In light of what I currently see and hear via phone calls from customers with orders (and this web site) , I have decided to convert our 2 Citations and possibly our XTC to Formula First. They were all available for sale as FV (listed for almost 2 years now). FV's are not selling.

If anyone is interested in a FST for next year let us know. There will be about 20 of them on the track this year and we will have probably another 3 of our own available.
If you think this is a route for you, call and we can discuss pricing and a package for you. New EVO's are also available of course.

If I see a serious effort at FV updating to a future package, I may keep these as FV and update to whatever, but at this time I see FST as the future for them.

[SR Racing]

There is certainly some merit to that. (allthough if you think Rice, Bonow, Schings, Middelege, Seim, etc. aren't competitive you might want to watch a race.)

I left out Mr. Nash (and others) here and I appologize. But I wanted to point out that he built a FST from basically scratch and it is a great performing car with lots of sex appeal. He has worked out all the bugs in 2 weekends and is now running with everyone else. So it is also a great "tinkerers" class since many of the design options are more open, yet the performance mods are very limited.

[rstackjd]

For what it's worth, from my seat (at the back of the pack ) this past weekend, the racing in the FST class was spectacular. In some repests I had the best seat in the house at least twice each race as the lead pack (and I do mean pack) came by me nose to tail and wheel to wheel. Without a doubt it was the closest racing of all of the five race groups.

[DanRemmers]

So how would a conversion plan work? Would you change the front beam one year, and the motor the next year?

And with a drop dead date, would there be two distinct classes (points & championship) up until that date?

If the drop dead date was set far in the future, 7 to 10 years, wouldn't the market determine when people converted? In other words, if you wrecked or blew a motor, you may decide that it's cheaper to convert to FST than rebuild to FV, based on parts cost and availability. But then, SCCA might not like such a long lead time.

Full Disclosure: I own and drive a solo vee, and despite my last name, I've never done any road racing.

[remmers]

Regarding the idea of cheap racing, Look into the 24 hrs of LeMons. Budget cap is the only way you'll be able to say your prices will stay significantly down even when competitiveness goes up. (Not to mention the LeMons cap is $500 minus safety requirements, and anybody who buys a helmet and suit can enter)
Remember, FV engines used to be really really cheap with homemade motors making just as much power as anybody else. But once people started looking for an edge, prices went up and only those who had been working on the engines knew where to squeeze that last .1 hp from.
(Oh, and don't think I don't drive my dad crazy trying to massage every last ounce out of the car, even for the Regionals. My personal theory is that the car should make it easy for the driver, and therefore it's the job of those preparing the car to make it as good as possible to make the driver's job as easy as possible, and my budget cap for every last race has been and will continue to be whatever's left over in my bank account after the preceding race)

[SR Racing]

So how would a conversion plan work?

Dan,

Got me. <g> A migration plan to FST is difficult to define. It is hard to define the steps to optimize it without having some throw-away parts in the process, or would mess with competibilty. (e.g. Discs on a link pin beam would be useless when you convert to BJ beam since the axles are much bigger. A BJ beam, wider tires, etc. with a 1200 would be very slow. A 1600 with all other parts FV would be way too fast for the class.) We went through this thought process when we started FST and just couldn't come up with anything that made great sense. But it would be possible and there is nothing that says you have to convert fully to FST for a new FV set of rules. You can convert to FST, but that is not what my post was about. It was just suggesting SOMETHING be done to FV to shore up future and current problems. If the decision was made to make FV rules the same as FST, I would make it a drop dead date. Whether it be 3 or 6 years.

A full FV to FST conversion can be done for as little as $4000. And you have a few parts left that could be sold to lesson that. A pro turn-key conversion can be done for $7000. We have done 3 of them. When you consider that that includes things that will be pro-rated throughout the next seasons and a new motor, etc, it's not that expensive.

[RacerGeek]

Regarding the idea of cheap racing, Look into the 24 hrs of LeMons. Budget cap is the only way you'll be able to say your prices will stay significantly down even when competitiveness goes up. (Not to mention the LeMons cap is $500 minus safety requirements, and anybody who buys a helmet and suit can enter)
Remember, FV engines used to be really really cheap with homemade motors making just as much power as anybody else. But once people started looking for an edge, prices went up and only those who had been working on the engines knew where to squeeze that last .1 hp from.
(Oh, and don't think I don't drive my dad crazy trying to massage every last ounce out of the car, even for the Regionals. My personal theory is that the car should make it easy for the driver, and therefore it's the job of those preparing the car to make it as good as possible to make the driver's job as easy as possible, and my budget cap for every last race has been and will continue to be whatever's left over in my bank account after the preceding race)

You can never control what people spend to race. What Formula First does is lessen the penalty for not spending more. If you want to buy new tires, buy them. But the penalty for not buying them with the R60a compound might be 1/4 -1/2 a second a lap as opposed to 2-3 seconds a lap with softer compounds after 5 or 6 heat cycles. You want a Monster Manny? Buy one. But in FST, the restrictor plate determines air flow in the induction system so there is really no point in messing with the carbs and manifolds. Nobody is going to get a bigger, better restrictor plate! Again, front runners will spend more if they have it, but the penalty for not spending more is decreased by prudent rule-making.

FV engines were cheap when 40 hp engines were readily available. The last VW sold with a 40 hp engine was build in 1965. The 28 pci carb was last built in the 50's. Suppliers of Formula Vee parts are basically building them just for Formula Vee and a few old VW guys. It's a cottage industry with few suppliers that can set their price without much competition to regulate the price. Formula First uses off the self parts that are available from the back of any number of air cooled VW magazines. VW engines aren't rocket science, but you won't find many (any?) home built engines at the Runoffs. But I know for a fact there was one at the ARRC in FST last year, and with a 17 year old rear Carrera shock and a 17 year old FV exhaust system the car ran in the top 5.

Most of the people that say FST should just go away have a large inventory of FV parts and don't want them to be obsolete. Guys that have run both will tell you the cost of running a FST makes it the much more attractive alternative.

[hardingfv32-1]

FST is where FV was 40 years ago. I GUARANTY that it will evolve exactly like the FV rules did. There is nothing short of Jim building all the engines in a sealed condition to stop this.

Now back to FV's. The first thing to determine is, do the majority of active drivers feel a move to new style parts necessary. I doubt it. With the average age of the current FV driver, it is much simpler to just retire when the parts problem gets impossible. What is the motivation to resolve an issue the will in all likelihood come after their driving career is over? This issue did not get far last year. Are there any new players to move it along this year?

Brian