Combined FV/F5 qualifying for *ALL* sessions ??

[FV80]

Please note the following message that I have sent .. and provide one of your own if you are in support.
tks, Steve, FV80

Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 12:57 PM
To: Terry Ozment
Subject: Combined qualifying session FV/F5 at the Runoffs
Terry,
Please ask the SOM’s to consider taking one of our qualifying days for each of F5 and FV and making them “class alone”. We are 2 of the largest classes at the Runoffs and having over 60 cars on track at the same time, with some 20 seconds a lap different in lap times between the 2 classes is going to be a NIGHTMARE. We only get about 6 laps during any qualifying session at best. You are practically forcing us to crash in qualifying. If that is the goal, then we will comply … no doubt.

I am confident that ALL FV and F5 participants would support this option. I guess we could try to arrange this on our own, but it would be nicer if SCCA noted the problem and did it for us.

If this is not viable, is there any possibility that you could provide me with EMAIL addresses for all of FV and F5 participants? I would be happy to attempt to orchestrate this on our own if SCCA is not willing to make the change.

Steve, FV80
-----------------------
I should also add that Terry's response was that it was too late to approach it from an SCCA perspective, but she was nice enough to forward it to the Runoffs Chief Steward for his consideration. If you are in favor, you might want to email HIM at jrogaski [at] hotmail.com (Jim Rogaski).

Of course, if you are opposed, you might also want to email him
If anyone has info on how to reach a significant number of F5 Runoffs participants, please let me know - seems that ALL of the F5 forums I can find are essentially DEAD...
sd

[Speedsport]

Thanks for doing this Steve. I have been tempted to "boycott" the runoffs this year so I can sit back and watch the qualifying sessions - It's absolutely absurd that the largest classes at the runoffs have combined sessions. At the very least, the top 10 should have their own. I know this is in response to the survey from last year in which I'm sure every driver requested more track time. This was someone's bright idea on how to accomplish that.

I really think we are going to have some major problems, and it's going to be an even bigger crap shoot then it's been.

Michael Varacins

[G.B.]

Steven,

This will be my first RunOffs so I am a novice in these matters.

How do the combined qualifying sessions work? Do the F5s and FVs take to the track as a group as we do for the Nationals or will the groups be split? For example, a minutes gap between the last F5 taking to the track and the first FV.

The latter would seem preferable.

Guy.

[FV80]

Steven,

This will be my first RunOffs so I am a novice in these matters.

How do the combined qualifying sessions work? Do the F5s and FVs take to the track as a group as we do for the Nationals or will the groups be split? For example, a minutes gap between the last F5 taking to the track and the first FV.

The latter would seem preferable.

Guy.

Guy,
there WILL be a split off the grid (mentioned in the supps), but it will mean pretty much NOTHING. There will always be cars coming out late and all cars are on the track at the same time. Slow cars coming out last will be "in the way" of fast cars that go out first - no matter what.
This is a part of how I responded to the Chief Stewards negative response to take action on my request.
... (to Chief Steward)
that does not address the situation where a TWENTY SECOND A LAP FASTER car on a good lap catches a Vee (a ‘FAST’ Vee) 40 feet before the kink and has to decide what to do about it… each of them cognizant of the fact that this would likely be their ONLY “clean” lap....

I am working on an 'internal' (FV/F5) proposal as we speak - SCCA cannot control who goes out in any qualifying session ... They can only set the schedule that determines who COULD go out...

Regardless of what happens, BE CAREFUL at your first Runoffs. Have a great time and take your car home in one piece .
Steve, FV80

[FV80]

Just so everyone (who posts/lurks) will know, I have prepared a VOLUNTARY 'opt out' form for both classes to sign before Tuesday's session - HOWEVER, the current forecast is for RAIN on Tuesday. Obviously, if there really IS rain on Tuesday, it won't work (unless there is ALSO rain on Wednesday).

I have been in touch with the Chief Steward and he wants to see what I post/hand out before I do it. With the current wx forecast, I'll just have to wait and see if it makes sense to try after I get there. If any of you have F5 buddies participating, you might discuss it with them and see what they think (if they have an active forum, I have not been able to find it). My 'plan' was to have F5 take the Tues session and FV would have Wed. That gives everyone a 'warm up day' on Monday and a 'make up day' on Thursday, but it would really only have a chance if all 4 days are dry (in the forecast). The only other possibility I can think of would be to try to split the sessions, but that would be much tougher - it would leave probably only TWO timed laps per class. Not much to work with.

Beyond that, all I can suggest is that everyone WATCH their mirrors, DON'T "fight" with other class cars for turns, and BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!! We could end up with a VERY interesting grid this year

Comments are welcome, but I'll be headed for Wisconsin tomorrow afternoon.
Steve, FV80

[rphillips]

I won't be at the RunOffs but that situation really stinks. In practice last year I had a 500 get inside of me at the kink which was interesting. However, what was more interesting was when one braked for the kink and I intended on taking it full throttle. No incident in either case but definitely not fun. Be careful!!

Ray

[Speedsport]

Steve,

I understand what you're trying to do, and I support it...the problem is without a constant weather forcast, it's a dangerous idea. If one of the groups gives up a qualifying day and it rains on the day we are supposed to have our own track, we lost 2 sessions. Not to mention the argument over which sessions we trade off.

I woiuld have stood up against this schedule a long time ago and made an argument for going back to last years schedule - but I figured I was in the minority against all those wanting "more track time".

Have a safe trip up.

[brian]

While you guys enjoy SCCA's "Premier" event, I will be touring the beautiful Northwest on my motorcycle. This will be only the 3rd time I have missed the Runoffs in 27 years. Good luck to everyone, be careful out there and enjoy yourselves

[FV80]

Well... EVERY CLASS at the Runoffs *EXCEPT* SM got combined with at least one other this year, but I'm pretty sure we have the HIGHEST car count in our grouping....by a fair margin I would say. Certainly by FAR the highest OPEN WHEEL car count. EP and FP have about the same car count, but I'm PRETTY SURE that the laptime difference is NO WHERE NEAR the 20+ seconds in our group.

This could be a VERY memorable Runoffs ... for those who DON'T survive

Maybe now is the time to revisit the "short week" runoffs schedule (for future events, anyway). There are just TOO MANY CLASSES in SCCA to run in a week with EVERYONE there for the entire week. If we split into, say even just TWO groups - open wheel, closed wheel, we wouldn't have to run the "other group" q and r sessions 'in line' with ours. I think we would all benefit from that. I would hate to miss all the other races, but I'm certainly willing to sacrifice that to save my life and car.

Steve, FV80

[FV80]

Well... EVERY CLASS at the Runoffs *EXCEPT* SM...

Exactly *ONE* more entry than we have, BTW...
sd

[tiagosantos]

I guess we just need to establish a horrible reputation for crashing with each other like SM and we'll be back to single class qualifying in no time!

[FV80]

Well... I guess this one is going to die on the vine. Everyone I've talked to complains about the issue, but is not willing to give up a session to resolve it (unless SCCA *MAKES* them, and SCCA has opted OUT of this one).

A shame.
Let's all play safe and deal with it as best we can...
Steve, FV80

[billinstuart]

SCCA has created their own nightmare..too many classes. When I started in Vee, F440 was developing. Those things were a rolling POS, and absolutely dangerous to race with AND drive. Vees accelerate slow and brake slow, but carry alot of speed in the turns..those glorified go-karts did just the opposite. Frankly, one of the reasons I sold my Vee.

THIS is why SCCA is porking the pooch on grouping cars..the characteristics at racing speed are grossly different. The door slammers are much more tolerant of occasional contact with another racer..if you bump a slower car nothing happens. Open wheel, we don't have that option. As such, racing with other classes becomes an exercise in dodging rolling pylons.

[Matt King]

FVs and F500s can be a real clusterf*** at RA, especially in the Kink, but hopefully the combination at the Runoffs will prove to be at most a minor inconvenience to all involved.

[smsazzy]

Maybe next year I will qualify as an F500 and then rent out my bump drafting in qualifying to the highest bidder. An F500 can do 140 into Canada. I think I could get any eve on pole pushing them an extra 20MPH down the straights!

What shall we start the bidding at?

I'm kidding of course, but the closing speeds will be interesting for sure at the speeds they're doing these days.

This grouping is the primary reason I will not be making the trip back this year.