FORMULAVEE.ORG

Ok. I know this will cause a lot of different opinions and that is what I want.

I have a 1972 Zink that has a 1915cc pro-built engine with dual webers. It also has external cooler, big valve heads, counter balanced crank, forged pistons and the entire engine was balanced when built. I know this car does not fit into the "normal" FV, FST or Vintage category but it does fit into the FS rules. The car was a FV since 1972 then was setup for autocross 2 years ago so it has the correct suspension. It has a LRE Short box, ATL Fuel cell and currently has Yokahama ES100 H rated 130 MPH tires. Add a 6-point harness, fire system and a transponder and the car is FS legal. From what I have been able to find out about SCCA Drivers schools, you can use any legal car as long as it has gone thru tech. I could rent a FV, FST, FF, Miata or SRF and use it to get my Novice license. Why not use my car setup as a FS?

Ok... here is the Your opinion part. Since it does not appear that you have to have a FV car to get thru drivers school, would you consider using this car just for drivers school?

Bring on the comments please!

What driving school are you entering? The early SEDIV school in Feb would be easier weather wise on what I assume is a hotter running engine. If you go to a summer event have you had any experience what temperature the car runs at? Should not be a problem on running FS class wise. More than likely Fred Clark out of Jacksonville will be over tech in the Buccaneer Region and is very knowledgeable in Vees (he builds Caracals)

You have a dune buggy engine someone paid to have assembled. Has the current configuration ever been on a real road coarse? I think you would be in for a very interesting ride.

For a driver school, you MUST have a COMPLETELY sorted car with one crew member that knows all about the type of car being used. The driver has NO time to work on the car during the school. A one man crew will be had pressed to keep up.

You need to find a local mentor, this forum is not going to answer all your questions. Chances are you don't even know what questions to ask!

Brian

Roger,
If you are thinking of running Roebling Roads SEDIV school in 2011 check out the Buccaneer Regions Time Trial in early November 2010. It is a laid back plenty of track time event and can give you an idea if the car can handle sessions up to 15-20 minutes. I agree with the comment above you need someone that can gas the car and get it ready for the next session and fix the gremlins. The RR school usually has 3 groups and if you are in one of the groups you are on the track for 20 minutes - you get done with you session you get a debrief from the "teachers" and then you need to be ready to go suited up and sitting on grid about 30-40 minutes after you get off the track.

You need an SCCA legal car. You need a log book and homologation certificate for the class you're going to enter the car. As a Formula Vee it would not need homo cert if it was built before a certain year (1978? 1981? Check the GCR.) But if you try to run it in FS you're going to need dual homologation for it. There really is not a short cut to get the car ready for a school.

Brian is absolutey right about having a sorted car and a crew member a for driver's school. You will get a lot of track time and will debrief with your instructor between every session.

Why do you need a race license if you don't have a race-able race car ?

It does not seem to make sense to invest in a race car just for race school. Why not invest in the longer term race car, even if it means delaying race school.

Renting a good car or going to a pro drivers school may be the best solution if you will have your long term race car together soon .... but not in time for the school.

I am planning on attending the double drivers school at Roebling Road in Feb. I have several people who have volunteered to crew. A couple are FV folks and a couple are engine/mechanic/supporting family types.

Getting some great suggestions and that is what I wanted.

I have a FV engine that came with my Zink but it will need a going thru. It is a Noble motor from 1994. It has the F1 replacement dual relief block, full flow, nice intake, carb was built by someone who puts an "R" on it. Has a 215 jet in it. Also came with a lightned flywheel. It spins ok.

This car was raced then was flogged in SOLO. My Zeitler is brand new but untested. Everything in it has been replaced but not sorted out. I just figured the Zink might be better for school.

I was planning on taking the Zink to an autocross in 2 weeks to see how it handles. The Time trials at RR is a great idea. I get some seat time and can get a good look at the track before driver school. Do I need a Novice permit for Time Trials?

ok... So where do I find a FV that is for rent in the Florida/Georgia area? Sounds like it may be cheaper than getting my ngine built and it comes with support if something breaks.

Roger,
Check with Fred Clark at Caracal cars for an FV rental. To run the Time Trial you can use your RR novice permit as the license. My email is m.rothermel@hotmail.com

I checked his website this morning but did not see anything on rentals. I will contact him.

Thanks.

OK, you asked for opinions, I'm offering up mine.

Don't attend a driver school until your own car is done, including a practice day to sort it out. That way, you will have a permit and a car to race. If you rent a car at a school, you may earn your permit, but if your car takes another year to finish (race car restorations never finish on schedule.) you may have to attend driver school again.

Also, FYI. Zink FV models like yours are referred to as Z-5 or C-4. No C-5s. It all has to do with the timing regarding when Citation Engineering started building them.

Good luck!

I have been trying figure out if mine is a Z or a C car. With the hump-back engine cover, I thought it was an early car and probably a Z5 but I do not know the differences yet. When the PO gets back from Alaska in November, he will give me the logbook and that should tell me for sure.

Here is my problem. I have the Zeitler that is 80 percent finished but untested. The engine in it is an old FV using a 40hp case but has a good intake and carb done by Dietmar. Don't know the condition of the transaxle. New brakes, bearings seals, shocks, master cylinders etc. It runs good in the garage but how it will do on the track is not known. I still need to buy a fuel cell and some odds and ends. No good place to test it out since I do not have a license or permit so SOLO will have to do.

The Zink is ready to go except for the 1915 engine. It has been raced for many years then autocrossed. It is sorted out but not fined tuned.

I still have to pay for the school, belts, transponder and a new helmet.

My options are:

1. Rent a car for drivers school and save the Zeitler for Vintage and the Zink for SOLO. cost ??????

2. Put the FV engine that is in the Zeitler in the Zink and hope it hold up at drivers school. ??

3. Use the Zink as a FS and still use it for SOLO. $100 for homolagation. If I want to use it later as a FV I will add the second Homolagation.

4. Rebuild the FV motor I got with the Zink and put it back in the Zink. $1500 plus.

5. Rebuild the FV motor and put it in the Zeitler and try and sort it out before Feb drivers school. leave the Zink for Solo. $1500 plus $600 for fuel cell.

You can see.. I have lots of options but only a certain amount of money to put into the project.

I received a lot of good advice while getting into a vee racing... unfortunately... I didn't listen. I've spent (wasted) a lot of money...

The only thing I finally did listen to... was RENT a car for drivers school... a fully sorted car with a crew experienced who can actually help with drivers school and knows the car your racing. At first it does not seem like the least expensive way, but in the long run it is. I thought they were kidding... "you don't even have time to gas the car..." that's no joke! If something goes wrong or you need to change tires... you'll miss a session. In the Northeast I rented from Stewart Racing, it was the best money I've spent so far. I was also lucky to have a Formula Vee racer as instructor for the SCCA school, that's hard to beat.

In order to maintain your SCCA license, you also need to complete two races a year. That means renting for two races a year,,, or sorting out your car.

http://www.fvrentals.info/

Time to piss is about the best you will get! These one weekend drivers schools are action packed. Everything has to be perfect before you signup. A non FV experienced crew will not cut it. There is no time for them to learn the ropes, as simple as the may be. Are you familiar with the school costs? Do you have the money to spend on a less than successful school? Do you have all the proper/latest safety equipment? When are the $700 Hans devices required?

Brian

St. Louis Region had a double school double regional earlier this year. Some of the entrants rented Spec Miatas for which the man renting them provided crews. All of them ended the weekend with a Regional license. All of them agree that it was worth the money and they might not have completed the weekend if they had to drive and maintain their own cars.

BTW, I'm not advocating renting a Spec Miata. It's just that there are no FV rentals here, but the man who rented these out has five SM's.

Fred Clark at Caracal does have a FV rental and he is going to call me tomorrow to see if we can work something out. At least I have abunch of options at this point and I have some time to decide which way to go. I really appreciate all the great advice especially from those who have been in my shoes. Thanks for the info.

Once you pass the Driver's School you have 2 years to get your 2 races in to receive your regional license.

Once you get the 2 races in and you have your regional license, is there any requirement, other than the medical, to run a certain amount of SCCA Races? Does racing with other groups like Vintage groups count in any way toward a SCCA requirement?

GOOD NEWS! Fred Clark called me and we have worked out a FV rental for the February Double Drivers School at Roebling Road! In case you have not had the pleasure of meeting or talking to Fred, he is one of the most knowledgeable FV guys in the world. He is also a very nice person and a great guy to talk to about FV's. He really set me straight on schools and I am really glad I contacted him. In a week or two I will travel to his shop at Caracal in Jacksonville and make sure I can fit in his car (I am a pretty big boy). If that goes ok, I am set for drivers school. Then I can concentrate on getting one of my cars ready for the first race at Daytona.

I want to thank everyone who gave me straight advice about my car and what to expect at driver school. You all made the choice easy for me. Good car = good school. Easy.

If all goes well, I will drive a first-class FV at the double school and have my ticket for my first race in march.

Thanks everybody.

hardingfv32-1 wrote:Time to piss is about the best you will get! These one weekend drivers schools are action packed. Everything has to be perfect before you signup. A non FV experienced crew will not cut it. There is no time for them to learn the ropes, as simple as the may be. Are you familiar with the school costs? Do you have the money to spend on a less than successful school? Do you have all the proper/latest safety equipment? When are the $700 Hans devices required?

Brian

Time to piss, I don't think I even had that! I remember going out for 4 sessions in a row holding it. "Ok guys, briefing is done, you need to be on track in (checks watch) 2 minutes, hey you, hold back for a moment, we have to talk."

Roger,
I concur on your statements on Fred Clark. While I have personally never met him, I did buy a Caracal D kit from him not so long ago. Fred makes promises he keeps and is deserving of the recognition you offered.
Jim Regan