Greying of the class

[brian]

Just in case someone hasn't noticed that our class is getting older, the total experience in years on the podium at the 4th of July national at Portland was over 100 years. The kid in second was only 63!

[smsazzy]

The First race had 2nd and 3rd place drivers in their 30's, and the Second race had a 3rd and 4th place driver in their 30's......

[tiagosantos]

Well all that experience has to count for something, eh? What was the combined experience in the bottom 3 finishers?

I'd like to think there are a few other younger guys out there.. I'm 26, I almost feel too young for vees and too old for anything else.

[smsazzy]

I started racing vees at 26, I am 31 now. Keep at it. It takes a lot of seat time. Youth does NOT make up for 30 years of experience, but it is good for something....

[tiagosantos]

Oh I plan on keeping at it - I've bought the car now, can't afford to not use it. Damn economy and all that, I'm pretty well stuck with it

Nah, I love it.. I really don't mind the fact that just about everyone else in the class, locally at least, is twice my age. Hell, Al Ores has been racing Vees for longer than I've been alive. It really adds to the class in my opinion. It's awesome to know that if I'm not winning (which I'm not hehe) it's mostly because I have a lot to learn rather than I can't afford it.

[1969zeitler]

Count me in as one of the old farts. I am almost 60 and just getting into FV racing. When I was 20, I raced at Summit Point in a Z28 camaro then spent years in drag racing and ralleys. I am just getting back to my roots I guess and looking forward to getting my 2 sons and son-in-law into it too. They are all in their 20's and 30's. Sometimes it takes a family.

[Mystique Racing]

Well you won't be surprised to hear that the average age of a SCCA member is 50

[tiagosantos]

Well that makes sense.. I mean, I don't know that many "kids" my age (late 20's) who could comfortably afford to go racing. Even as "cheap" as vees can be, it's still racing = money pit. I'm lucky to have a decent job that allows me to play with race cars for a little bit, but still nowhere near as comfortably as I would like it to be. Realistically, I should be saving to buy a house. But when I think of how long it'll take me to save the 100 grand or so I need for a down payment (yay for Vancouver BC!), my racing budget doesn't seem to make much difference..

[Lynn]

Well you won't be surprised to hear that the average age of a SCCA member is 50

I can't find the source now, but I remember reading a few years ago that the average age of an SCCA member is 54.

[Matt King]

During the SPEED TV broadcast of the 2008 FV race at Heartland Park, the announcers mentioned that the average age of the drivers entered in the race was 50.

[problemchild]

The grey-haired drivers seem to becoming white-haired drivers.

[billinstuart]

Two thoughts.

1) SCCA better get its act together and develop a product that is attractive to a younger generation
2) Harvey Templeton. What an inspiration for us old farts.

[FV80]

I wonder if there are any stats from previous years as to average age of license holders. You know... it really wouldn't surprise me much if the average age of drivers has ALWAYS been rather high. It's a simple fact that very few younger people will have the financial wherewithall to "splurge" on a race car and it's associated maintenance requirements.

I was 25 when I started autocrossing, but could not see my way to road race till several years later. I guess I was 29 when I first "raced" a car ... an FV, and it was on a pretty thin budget. Come to think of it, over 30 years later, I STILL race on a pretty thin budget, but it's a bit bigger than it was back then

I DO seem to recall that most of my competitors have been "around" my age, though ... through all of those years. It would still be interesting to know what the average age was back in the late 70's. That average might not have increased nearly as much as we think.
Steve

[billinstuart]

Stevan:

Remember, they increased the minimum weight 25 lbs. because the majority of the cars (drivers) couldn't make minimum weight.

As an aside, I remember racing at Roebling 30 years ago (50 lbs ago......) when they had 2 wheel scales. They weigh the front..I'd lean forward and put my helmet in front of the wheel. Weigh the rear..I'd lean back, and put my helmet on my head.

1005 Lbs. OK! Next.

[jpetillo]

Being unaffordable to young people is nothing new for SCCA. Me and a friend were looking to get into SCCA back in 1986 when we graduated from college and had real (high-paying?) jobs. We were interested in FV and were going to even share a car to start. It was quite unaffordable, mostly due to the entry fees. The car costs were reasonable. And the high cost of the two schools didn't help.

However, motorcycle road racing was a fraction of the cost entry fees wise and was easily affordable. I could easily do that as a student. And only one school was needed. Practice sessions were on Saturday where we'd go out at least 4 times, and then the races were on Sunday - with practice (2 sessions) in the morning. I don't know why they could do it for so much cheaper. Perhaps because with the low prices they could get people like me to help fill the grid.

I wonder if the SCCA has looked at that supply/demand equation in recent years. John

[butchdeer]

Racing is not cheap. I don't believe SCCA is that much more money than other forms of racing that are attracting youg people.I do belive that the circle track culture is one where car owners are more likely to pick up young drivers and sponsor them than road racing where just about everybody is on his own dime. (maybe dads dime)
Butch

[craigs]

Circle track is a whole different league of $ for entry level racing.

One of my crew guys races a roadrunner car at the local circle track - 4 cylinder mostly FWD, loose rules but with a claim rule. It's $35 to enter and prize money for the top 10 in fields of 20 or so.

For what we pay for an engine you could buy a roadrunner car and finance a season of racing (28 races all on sundays).

No one in his class appears over 40 and the youngest driver is 13 (there is a separate kid's class for kids from 12-16 that aren't fast enough to run with the adults). None of the cars in his class are "sponsored" that I can tell, besides the handful that are sponsored by the driver's junkyard/bodyshop.

Unfortunately, the economics don't translate well to SCCA because the circle track gets a thousand plus fans a weekend paying to spectate.

[billinstuart]

Early SCCA, people actually drove most of the cars to the races. When I started ('70's) we towed our cars on open trailers, and many racers camped at the track in tents. Regional Vee's had homebuilt engines, and were competitive with them.

Now, the paddock is full of transporters and custom built IT cars..EVERYTHING is expensive and professionally built. There simply isn't a cost effective entry level class available. Add to this the proliferation of classes and reduction in seat time, and SCCA road racing doesn't look real attractive.

The tracks have changed. Road Atlanta was emasculated. Palm Beach international is now both the most expensive and least viewer friendly track in the southeast. Other tracks have disappeared.

So just WHAT is attractive to younger potential racers to make them want to become involved? The everyday guys with nominal budgets. No more Formula classes. Maybe IT, as a backmarker. I dunno.

[tiagosantos]

That's definitely the idea I get about the SCCA events. I'm lucky to be in an area where most people run home built (well, by relatively experienced home builders, but they're not exactly Mike Palermo!) and where costs are expected to be low. People here run vees because they're cheap and because the competition is fun. We have 2 ex-FC drivers that switched to Vees for the closer racing, a couple ex-FF drivers, etc.

I don't know, I can definitely understand the pursuit of speed - I'm doing what I can to improve my car along with my own driving - but I'm happy that all the locals are able to refrain from spending big bucks to kick everyone's ass. It would be easy for some of the guys in our class to spend a few grand on an engine rebuild from one of the big builders and instantly be a second or two ahead of the pace. But no one does - it would be boring as hell to drive around for 20 minutes all by yourself, until someone else eventually splurged as well, and after a while everyone would have to splurge. Some of us would not be able to afford it and would either quit, or race a different class. Kinda like the SCCA

[1969zeitler]

Having closed races with little or no spectators hurts the sport. Look at NASCAR and Circle-track. I would guess that MOST of their new drivers come from the spectator pool. People like what they see and want to be part of the "action". Dads that take their kids to these races would love to see them become drivers and would support them financially. Even the Dads would like to do it! We have no spectator pool to attract new drivers from and the current drivers are getting Grayer with very race season and soon will retire from racing with no new drivers to take their place. I think the SCCA should have open house days where spectators can see what goes on behind the fences of our tracks. Invite the public in and get them interested.

Unfortunately, the SCCA is not like other clubs. I belong to the Military Vehicle Preservation Association (restores military vehicles) and the Experimental Aircraft Association. Both of these clubs have monthly meetings that are open to the public. They also have open house type gatherings so people can see and touch the jeeps and airplanes, not just look at them from 50 feet away. They also have social events that encourage members to help other members with their projects to keep them on the road and in the air. I see none of this with the SCCA. I realize that it is different in that it is competition between the members that is the focal point, not cross-team building. I still remember back in the late 60's when I blew a racing tire on my Z28 camaro and another team member, who I had never met, gave me one of his so that I could race that weekend. I see this in the FV group today. A well-known builder/driver and a father-son team both gave me sets of tires to get my car ready for tech. We need to keep that in the FV Family. I think that sets apart from the other groups.

OK. I'll shut up and watch my hair go a little more white....

[FV80]

... it would be boring as hell to drive around for 20 minutes all by yourself...

Hmmmm... although the competition is paramount in SCCA, you should also be able to gain significant satisfaction from competing against yourself. Personally, I get a LOT of enjoyment out of driving my car to it's limits WITHOUT passing beyond them into the concrete. Any time I can approach a lap record time... or beat my previous best... or even MATCH my previous best, I feel good about what I'm doing. I strive for FAST, CONSISTENT laps. The adrenalin pumps nearly as well as when I'm racing someone if I stay close to the limits (close enough to wonder sometimes if I'm going to MAKE IT!). If you're not running anywhere close to "the edge", then I can understand why you would get bored. This is NOT to imply that you are doing that, Tiago - just that it takes a strong mental approach to the sport - to be able to run close to the limit - challenge yourself and be consistent. We have had some tough times here in SEDIV for the previous 4 or 5 years - not many competitors, but I kept in mind that - sooner or later, I WOULD run into a pack of angry vees - probably a LOT of them - that would be trying to blow me into the weeds. My "job" was to make sure that I was ready for that challenge when it occurred and I thoroughly enjoyed keeping myself READY .. or, at least attempting to do so. This kind of FUN is far from cheap, but I find it much more satisfying than taking the "thrill rides" at Six Flags.

When you are "driving around all by yourself for 20 minutes" ... how close are your lap times?? They should be within 0.5 secs. I realize that you are new to our sport, but keep in mind that personal achievement extends past finishing in front of someone else

Roger - Be sure to include (somehow) info in your DVD about the FV website (FormulaVee.us) and the FV Registry. Interestingly, in almost 2 years of "full operation" of the site and registry, I have received only a single request from someone looking for help or info ... I'd be interested in feedback if anyone has any ... Is the site so good that it gives everyone every thing they need? (I doubt it), or ... what can I do to make it more 'enticing' .. or should there be some more prominent offer of help somewhere??
Steve, FV80

[1969zeitler]

Steve. I will include the sites in the DVD and the u-tube version. I did a google on formula vee and formulavee.us and formulavee.org are at the top. That's good news!

[tiagosantos]

If you're not running anywhere close to "the edge", then I can understand why you would get bored.

I see your point, it's a good one I guess being new to driving Vees and racing in general, I find it a lot more exciting and stimulating to chase someone and trying to catch/keep up, than racing against the clock by myself.. Doesn't help that I don't have a lap timer yet so I don't usually know how good/bad I'm doing, and both me and the car are inconsistent enough that it's hard to figure it out without a timer. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of fun in practice and qualifying, but nothing like the race. Maybe it's the adrenaline from not knowing the other drivers all that well, I'm always in "panic" (not really, but words escape me for explaining my mental state..) mode when I'm following someone closely. I haven't had many chances to be ahead of people yet, so I don't know much about how that feels haha.

Anyway, I do agree with what you're saying, but I still think that the more, the merrier! If anything, time in the paddock is a lot more entertaining when there's a bunch of us

[FV80]

You are very right, Tiago the MORE the MERRIER!!. I guess the most important thing I can tell you (from experience, mind you) is DON'T become so focused on the car in front of you that you follow him off the track ifwhen he makes a mistake .. however, if you DO - you won't be the first and, for sure, not the last either
Steve

[tiagosantos]

Ah.. I learned that lesson very quickly - my second race, actually. I was catching up to the car in front, and her engine cover snapped in half on the main straight. I moved over to the right and kept looking at the flapping piece of fiberglass, pointing at it so the corner workers would see it. By the time I got my focus back, I was waaaay past my braking point. Hit the brakes and spun right into her as she turned in to T1. Lesson learned, won't do that one again