Showcase nationals

[Speedsport]

Some FF drivers have agreed and organized among themselves several "Showcase" nationals, in which they are attempting to draw a larger then usual group of entries in an effort to create better racing and fields at select events. The theory is if everyone can agree to attend specific events, the overall racing will be better. Discussions can be seen on apexspeed.

It may be too late to consider this idea for FV's this season, but it is food for thought. I would be willing to travel some to attend races that may be above a normal national in terms of competition and fields. Is anyone else up for an idea like this?

[72jeff]

On a regional level we do this with "veefest" in the north east..........it has been pretty successful

[jmattox]

Since we race a little more than the rest of the world, a doorslammer friend of mine suggested a "premier" class or group be "showcased" each month. Given 2-5 extra laps in the feature race and a little nicer trophies. It sounded like a nice thing, no extra practice/qualifying time and even if the races get cut short due to "whatever" the 2 laps extra could still be there. Kinda like "veefest" it might encourage people to make the haul to Florida. But, we never started it, because, "we" don't do things like that.

John
CFR fv42

[Veefan]

This is a picture from the 2007 Veefest at Limerock. The last few years have had great turnouts, usually 20+/- Vees, both National and Regional racers.

[ external image ]

[Mad Dog Racing]

That was kind of what happened with the old Pro-Vee series. You could go to an out-of-division race and run in a good field with a vee-only group. I think to make it work would take both an agreement among the drivers and at least some support from the organizers, even if it isn't a race group. But I guess we would have to prove we could pull a field first.

Completely different thought, this seems to be the unintended consequence of reducing the Runoffs qualifying to a minimum, now I don't have to run six or eight local nationals, I can run four and pick one or two interesting races out of division for fun. Not that Runoffs qualifying is a priority anymore anyway. Starting this year, drivers are not looking for points out-of-division, they are looking for competition, too many classes are down to less than a handful of cars. How can you have any fun when there are three cars and the winner is a lap up on second and two up on third, and second is a lap up on third?

Starting to see some unusual car turnouts already in various classes, not just in vees, so maybe it's happening very informally, 3-4 cars one weekend, 12 the next and back to 3-4 the next. Did they all agree to run that race or did they see a good early entry so more jumped in?

[VORT94]

Maybe we can set up some races at the local tracks around Road America on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday instead of just standing around and wasting money on food and motels for 3 extra days at the Runoffs. Look at the schedule in Fastrack. MY VORTECH IS "REALLY" FOR SALE NOW!!

[Matt King]

Yep, all I can say about that schedule is, "Thank god I live 40 minutes from the track!"

[FV80]

Anyone know what happened to the "plan" for putting all of a classes session (more or less) on sucessive days?? I thought it was pretty close to that last year. This does seem rather absurd the way it is now.
Steve

[Speedsport]

Steve,

I understand how the schedule turned out as it did. They combined less classes this year, so there are more total qualifying sessions. They are basically running them 1-25, then repeat. Since we are late in the day on Monday, we don't get cycled through again until Wednesday morning. Some groups have to sit out a day - I'm not sure how else they could have done it. Otherwise, I think some people might have had to run 2 in one day.

I don't mind the day off. My biggest issue is having to be race ready at 9:30 Sunday morning. I don't function that well early in the morning.

[FVartist]

Tuesday is the day they scheduled for the CRB meeting for Formula and Sports racers.

[Mad Dog Racing]

Just saw the Runoffs schedule in Fastrack and it reinforced my opinion of why I will likely never participate in the Runoffs again. Four twenty-minute sessions spread out once a day for four days was bad, but three sessions over four days is just a waste of time (and money). Then you get to wait another two days to race, what a joke!

Why can't half the groups come in for three days to qualify and race, then the other half, likewise. I know, the gripe will be it's six days for the workers, but it's seven now. There should be no provision for test days within two weeks or so of the event, so the events could be back-to-back. If they can run all the classes at the Sprints in four days, they can run half the classes in three. (And yes, a lot of the classes that run together all year may have to run together at the Runoffs, big whoop, 16 races for 32 classes - or is it pushing 40 now.) Oh yeah, I forgot, the guys that run the same car in two classes now wouldn't get a chance to do that in this format, sorry.

I might make the trip to unload Monday, practice and qualify Tuesday/Wednesday and race Thursday and decide if I really wanted to stay and watch any races on Sunday. The second group could unload/watch races Thursday, P&Q Friday/Saturday and race Sunday. It'll never fly, makes it too easy.

[hardingfv32-1]

You are right, half the classes could be run in 3-4 days. The smaller event would also make many more tracks viable to hold the event. The Runoffs could be held in more diverse locations.

While I agree that this schedule is good reason to stay away, that fact is that race entries are falling and it is doubtful they will ever increase again. That being the case, the Runoffs and Sprints will probably be the only time a National race has more than 10-15 cars.

Brian

[Matt King]

While I agree that this schedule is good reason to stay away, that fact is that race entries are falling and it is doubtful they will ever increase again.

Probably not with the current model used to stage the Runoffs. Meanwhile, NASA took over SCCA's date at Mid-Ohio for it's own National Championships in 2006 and hit the ground running with over 400 entries for each of the three years it was held there. Then it moved them to Miller and maintained that number. And it's a four-day event with two days of qualifying and heat races and two days of championship races with the classes split acorss both days. It's interesting that SCCA has adopted more and more of NASA's practices, rather than the other way around; for example, opening the Runoffs to all recognized national classes, easing the entry requirements, and opening up the number of participants to everyone who meets the entry criteria. Maybe a four-day schedule will be next.

[Speedsport]

The original point of this thread was to try and find ways to increase car counts - even if it's only at selected events. If we can increase car counts at selected events, I think some of that will spill over to other races.

The FST group had success by staging their own "series" run with standard SCCA regionals. The Pro-Vee events had some success, but I think the interest faded because there was too much pressure to run them as "pro" events. We just don't have that kind of drawing power to be considered a pro class.

Since SCCA isn't doing a good job of working to create good schedules, its up to us. For example, this year on May 21-23, there is a National at Mid-America, Mid-Ohio, and Road America. 3 nationals, all in the same part of the country on the same weekend. Great plan, no? Woudn't it be better if the FV's as a group decided to go to Mid-Ohio (or one of the others) that weekend, instead of having us spread out over 3 tracks? I understand the complications of getting anyone to agree on anything, but we need to consider this, if not for this season but next. If Road America wasn't the runoffs host track, I would be happy to go to Mid-Ohio or Mid-America if thats where the majority of FV's were going to be.

I usually go to Grattan for the national there every year, but I was planning on skipping it this season due to it being the following weekend from the double at Road America. But I heard some chatter about a few people attending. I'm now planning on at least making an attempt to get there since it sounds like some others are.

If we as a group can agree to attend certain events, then in theory we should be able to increase the competition, thus increasing the fun, with the end goal of creating a more desirable program for people to be involved in.

I haven't put a lot of thought into the logistics of this idea yet - I'm just pitching thoughts to see if something can be done.

[Matt King]

I think it's a good idea. I know some guys I used to race with in NASA doing something very similar with the American Iron racing series. They have a core group committed to attending key races at some of the premier tracks thoughout the east and midwest (Road America, Mid Ohio, VIR, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen and Sebring). For each of these races, the regular group of locals is joined by a few cars traveling from each of the nearby regions. This weekend at VIR they will have over 40 cars racing inthe group. If I didn't have a very specific plan for this season to run up at Road America as often as possible to prepare for the Runoffs, I would like to run Mid-Ohio (my favorite track) and possibly a few others out of CenDiv. I'm even looking to reconfigure my 24-foot trailer to haul two Vees so I can hopefully find someone who would like to split the towing.

[Mad Dog Racing]

Sorry I hijacked the thread to gripe about the Runoffs, my bad.

I have a race this weekend, but then I'm off until Memorial Day, so what I'll do is take the April Sportcar event list and pull up a half-dozen or so nationals to see if we can start a list for 2011. My list may end up with some of my 'bucket list' tracks, but at least it will get the ball rolling.

My opinion (and everybody has one) would be to stay away from the Sprints and Road America on this list, anybody interested is going to go there anyway. The Sprints are already elevated and promoted.

Another opinion, when I look at going out-of-division to run a new track, I usually look for a double regional rather than a national, but that's just me, I'll use nationals for the list. I'll just plan on running the test day to try to figure out which turns go left and which go right.

By the way, if I get a finish Sunday, I'll be Runoffs qualified, an oops in February kept me from qualifying by the first weekend in March.

Mike

[problemchild]

How about Showcase Regionals
Trying to get people to travel in these times seems counter-productive.
Lowering costs and improving accessability will simulate growth at the regional level which is where it all starts. Rather than have National drivers spending money to travel, encourage National drivers to race locally more often. Even if not scoring points at regionals, their attendance would boost fields, strengthen FV race groups, and support the local Regions who run events in their area. Spend money on racing .... not travel.

[Mad Dog Racing]

I understand the concern. Here, we used to have all regional/nationals and the top national drivers would run the race for practice against each other and usually pull off at the end to let the mid-pack guys pick up the trophies. Now the organizers are fixated on doing N/N and R/R weekends and the national guys just don't show up. I tried running some R/R's for a test day, but it's cheaper to get a full day of testing at half the price on Friday, you just don't have anybody to run with unless it's the day before a national. Now I work grid at the schools and R/R's. The last three R/R's have had 2, 2, and 1 FV and that was three different drivers. Two of the three were just running to pick up their national ticket and may not be back when the regional season picks up again in September.

The topic was Showcase Nationals, so that's what I'll put out for a proposal. 1) Don't think the national guys would travel to run a double regional, and 2) don't think the regional guys would travel out of division. And 3) yes, I agree the participation in true regional racing is probably something to say about the health of racing. Here, most of our regional-only door-slammers have gone over to NASA, we usually get about six IT cars if you don't count the Spec Miatas running two groups.

[hardingfv32-1]

Obviously the trend has to be towards scheduling fewer races. It would also be helpful that they not overlap. SCCA will probably have to restructure to accomplish such efficiencies. Does NASA have a regional sub structure like SCCA? I can not see how SCCA gets rid of the regional level of administration. Most of the scheduling issues revolve around the individual regions buying the race dates.

Brian

[Matt King]

Does NASA have a regional sub structure like SCCA? I can not see how SCCA gets rid of the regional level of administration. Most of the scheduling issues revolve around the individual regions buying the race dates.

Brian

No, NASA is organized essentially along the lines of the SCCA's divisions, so within a given larger territory there is only one exclusive entity organizing and promoting races, although in some cases two "divisions" (NASA actually calls them regions) will get together to promote a crossover race at a track that is in one or the other region. This is done to combine forces and resources so to speak. Being a new and smaller organization, there are still some areas of the country where NASA has little presence (Pacific NW for one, and some lightly populated parts of the midwest). But there is only one level of NASA racing; all races are open to all classes and there is no regional/national split. I think eventually SCCA is going to have to follow suit. There just does not appear to be enough racers, workers, and dollars available in most parts of the country to sustain the split system, and when you add the issue of scheduling races at tracks with fewer available dates, with conflicting/overlapping dates, etc., it just doesn't make much sense to fragment the fields and stress the logistical and financial ability of the regions to host races.

[brian]

I think you guys are all hitting good points. I've tried to convince my region that fewer races would mean larger entries but the officials are resistent for fear of loosing revenue.
Since Runoff qualifying is easier, I may make a cruise across America and try to hit races in weekly sequences. I've done this before and it usually combines both regionals and nationals. If we could class designate certain weekends at premier tracks, maybe folks would adjust their schedules. Maybe some of the regions who's races are passed up will get the hint and try to schedule better.

[hardingfv32-1]

It would be my opinion that the Regions have lost their power to pick track dates. The regions have cut back a little and hold less sway with the tracks. There is also much more competition from other racing groups for the good dates.

Brian

[Mad Dog Racing]

It's not just NASA that holds up the process of getting tracks. There are the motorcycle groups, the kart groups, and so on above and beyond the other car groups like vintage and marques clubs. Once a region kind of "gets on the list" they are reluctant to give up any dates because at well-run tracks there is a waiting list and a date given up may be gone forever, or at least the next few years, which is forever in our culture. If a region has three dates now and gives one up, they may only have two until 2016. That's a tough choice to make, maybe you should hold onto a breakeven date for now, or is it better to downsize and do two 'good' events.

At Texas World, we have the added problem of Texas A&M football, now that the networks are calling the shots, they added a game on a weekend that was open when the NCAA published the fall schedules, so a race weekend gets cancelled, no rooms. Thank goodness college baseball doesn't draw a crowd. But if your favorite track is in a city that is pushing for convention business, it may make your scheduling a problem for drivers and workers. The convention thing has bitten me twice in the last 12 months.

But I'm with Brian, if I'm going to tow a thousand miles each way, I'd like to make at least two tracks on the trip.

[Mad Dog Racing]

OK, I said I would throw out something to look at as far as 2011 Showcase Nationals, so here it is. First, “my” rules.
1) I skipped Rocky Mountain, Northern Pacific, and Southern Pacific. In reality, I also skipped Midwest and Southwest, but not officially, I did look at the choices there.
2) No rovals, if it looks like an oval and NASCAR runs there, it’s an oval.
3) Pick a race in April, May, July and August and save June for anybody looking to go to the Sprints.
There were about 30 race weekends in the April Sportscar that fit my first pass criteria; I won’t list them all here in detail, you can look them up. Per American Idol, here is my Top Twelve.
April 10-11 Hallett (MidDiv) R/N OK track, two races, weather OK - except for tornados.
April 16-18 VIR (SEDiv) N/N Great track, on my ‘Bucket List’, don’t know any details.
Apr 30-May 2 Blackhawk (CenDiv) N/N OK track, weather could be an issue, see August.
May 1-2 HPT (MidDiv) R/N OK track, two races – “But nobody likes Topeka, Pt 1”.
May 22-23 Mid-Ohio (GLDiv) N I’ve run the track several times, has some ‘draw’.
May 22-23 Road Atlanta (SEDiv) N Haven’t run the ‘new’ track, real toss-up with Mid-Ohio.
May 29-30 TWS (SWDiv) R/N Not a roval, the oval is out, region helpful, very dark horse.
June 5-6 HPT (MidDiv) R/N OK track, two races – “But nobody likes Topeka, Pt 2”.
June 26-27 Road America (CenDiv) N June Sprints – had to go on the list, it’s a Showcase National.
July 3-5 Nelson Ledges (GLDiv) N/N Got the nod over the May race here, it’s a double.
July 10-11 Watkins Glen (NEDiv) N Another ‘Bucket List” track, but nothing wrong with Nelson.
August 27-29 Blackhawk (CenDiv) N/N Only choice in August, but a double.

And the Final Four are:
April VIR Got to get this track in with a double national.
May Mid-Ohio Close pick over Road Atlanta, but only choice from GLDiv.
July Watkins Glen Want to run the Glen, so it’s on the list. To me, the only logical pick from NEDiv.
August Blackhawk Not a lot to work with after 4th of July, but a double national. (I'm old, there used to be 6 nationals on Labor Day.)
(Don’t know anything about Beaver Run or Bluegrass, never hear them mentioned.)
Note – If you don’t want to do an August race, the only choice to fit in a fourth race is HPT, three weeks after Mid-Ohio and three weeks before the Sprints. Remember, this all assumes that the 2011 schedule will be similar to this year.

[Ed Womer]

VIR is in 2 weeks and is a great track. Being a double national and early in the season it might have a good turnout. In case it isn't posted on the SCCA site the July Watkins Glen date is a double national which will probably mean even larger turn out than normal. Beaverun is a nice track as well as the new New Jersey track that we had the first national at last year.

With the new relaxed runoffs requirements I suspect there will be a droop off in national entries because you don't need to be in the top ten anymore. You only need to go one lap past half way and can come in and be done. You could do this for the 4 races and not spend a lot of money except for the entries and travel. Actually it is coming at a good time with the constantly increasing cost just to get to the event before you get on the track I am going to only do 3 or 4 weekends this year and the runoffs.

Ed