Regional Championships

[CSatterley]

I was just wondering if the regions could make regional completion more appealing. In the Great Lakes division and I’m sure in other divisions, the regional championship has about zero appeal. Most of the drivers don’t even qualify for the championship. What if regions set it up using the same format as the national championship? In the great lakes division we had 13 races spread over 7 weekends. Do you think more people would want to compete at a regional level if there was a regional championship weekend or race like the runoffs? Where you had to finish at least 6 races or even just 4 races to qualify for the championship weekend, then a championship winner take all weekend or race at the end of the year. Just trying to get opinion on whether this format would be more appealing/fun for regional competition?

[remmers]

The difference between regional and national drivers is that the national drivers are usually seasoned veterans that have many years of experience in all sorts of situations under their belt. That didn't stop chaos from ensuing at RA. Now make all of those drivers less experienced in many cases and you're going to wind up with problems. I for one, would not want to participate in a regional event like that simply because I've seen inexperience on someone else's part end many a good driver's race prematurely. I'd rather just drive for the regular regional championships where consistency counts more than having one good or bad race. I actually like the NARRC-offs way of doing things, where it counts for double points, so it usually has a good turnout, but doesn't mean that the rest of the races during the year don't count.

[Rob Howden]

I was just wondering if the regions could make regional completion more appealing. In the Great Lakes division and I’m sure in other divisions, the regional championship has about zero appeal. Most of the drivers don’t even qualify for the championship. What if regions set it up using the same format as the national championship? In the great lakes division we had 13 races spread over 7 weekends. Do you think more people would want to compete at a regional level if there was a regional championship weekend or race like the runoffs? Where you had to finish at least 6 races or even just 4 races to qualify for the championship weekend, then a championship winner take all weekend or race at the end of the year. Just trying to get opinion on whether this format would be more appealing/fun for regional competition?

Hi Chris,

I, myself, think this would be a very cool idea. In mirroring the Runoffs approach, the first six races could be for the Regional Championships and the seventh event could become the Great Lakes Divisional Runoffs to crown a separate champion. If you needed to run at least four races to qualify for the event, it could help boost participation at the first six races, and would then give the regional program a marquee event at the end of the year to promote. As a regional driver myself, I think this would be cool. It's nice to have a goal at the end of the tunnel, and the race organizers of the seventh event could really work it.

I think the idea certainly has merit.

[JimR]

The NERRC/NARRC events are a good example of what is being asked for. As Brian points out some of the races count for double points and there are bonus points awarded for competing at multiple and/or all track venues. It is also possible to be a New England Region NERRC Champion without being the NARRC champion. At the end of the year the NARRC Runoffs are held and as a double point event that many times determines the NARRC champion. Trophies for this event have typically been very nice and it remains a race that most competitors single out as the event they want to win or in some cases need to win to earn their championship. This effort is then acknowledged during a separate banquet weekend that brings the racers and volunteers (workers) together with the awarding of additional trophies and recognition for everyone. It remains a great format that generates interest and a reason to compete.

[hardingfv32-1]

A national level Championship for Regional competitors is a dream. I can confidently state that most regional drivers seldom venture beyond there local tracks and even less frequently beyond their division. I would assume this is a function of both time and money available to Reg competitors. What makes the Runoffs work are competitors that are committed to their racing. This means serious money and time commitments.

Brian

[Doug Carter]

Why not just get rid of the whole National and Regional divide in the first place, and get more cars to each race? There are top level drivers at Regionals and plenty of people who don't belong at Nationals. I never understood the division of your customers. I'd rather see the club split up between sedans and formula cars. It'd probably bring more people to the track with bigger classes, more cars, and more focused events.

[remmers]

in that same vain, I would like to see all those regional classes that have one or two cars if that at any given race abandoned in favor of throwing them in SPO/SPU or in a formula version. FCO/FCU perhaps? that'd create much more focused fields than when you have events where 35 different classes show up.

[Matt King]

A national level Championship for Regional competitors is a dream.
Brian

Well then it's time for you to wake up. Guess you've never heard of the ARRC at Road Atlanta. Plenty of serious and committed racers have been attending for many years.

http://www.atlantascca.org/arrc.html

[CSatterley]

I agree that some regional drivers would not have the experience of national drivers, but I'm not sure they would risk anything more because of a regional championship race than they would at any other regional race. About half of the regional guys do nationals as well so I wouldn't personally be any more worried than I normally am about an inexperienced driver.

Just looking at different options on how to bring guys from a particular region to a single regional race weekend to battle for that regions championship. Maybe build a little prestige to regional racing and maybe just maybe give someone a reason to pull a car out of their garage and compete knowing they will get to race against the best of the worst in their region at some point during the year.Also the highest car count I saw this year was 8.

[FV80]

Why not just get rid of the whole National and Regional divide in the first place...

The primary reason is that most of the regional (type) drivers would be getting LAPPED by the top national drivers and would likely NEVER have an opportunity to earn a trophy. I think we NEED regional level. Here in SEDIV we have a quite strong regional field, while the national level fields are considerably smaller. Several of those competing in the regionals are former national drivers that just don't want to put forth the time and money that it takes to remain competitive at the national level any more ... and they are having great fun at the regional level. A few are "early years" drivers that have asperations of moving to nationals when they feel ready.

SEDIV also has a great regional divisional championship (SARRC) series which requires at least 3 starts in class and pays double (or maybe triple?) points for the final SIC event [SARRC Invitational Challenge)(that happens to be next weekend) at Roebling. It is a strong series and similar to the MARRS series.

Steve

[Doug Carter]

The primary reason is that most of the regional (type) drivers would be getting LAPPED by the top national drivers and would likely NEVER have an opportunity to earn a trophy. I think we NEED regional level.

Sorry, I never subscribed to the "every kid gets a trophy" theory. If you want a trophy, earn it. It should mean something to win. If you get lapped, you're not good enough to win a trophy. That's part of racing, whether you are 12 or 52.

Personally, I'd rather be in a full class of cars with people to race with at every skill level, than scuffling for car counts in various regions. I donno, that's just me.

[hardingfv32-1]

The ARRC is a SE regional race. It might bridge two divisions, but very few competitors travel more than 400-500 miles to compete at this event. Quaint, but hardly a national level championship race for regional level classes. We use to do the same thing on the West Coast.

Most new drivers seldom last more than 3-5 years in SCCA because the commitment required to be successful is greater than they expected. A regional level program can be accomplished with a lower level of commitment. This makes the situation more palatable to the average competitor.

Brian

[remmers]

Don't forget, Doug, that your mindset obviously isn't in the majority. There's a huge contingent of racers who want to be legends in their own mind, and being able to say they won this that and the other thing even though it's no Daytona 500 is what they come to the track for. SCCA is in the service industry, and so they need to cater to those who put forth the money. If you want to race against the best you can, find someone to back a F1 team and you can get your butt kicked if you'd like. (Granted, that's a bad example as FOM only allows a certain number of teams to race. But you get the idea.) Personally, I think the tier system entices drivers to move up the ladder. If you were to get shoved into a pro race against some of the greatest professional drivers in the world and get your ass kicked, many would get demoralized and quit. Not to mention you would likely not learn much from them as they blast by you lap after lap. However, on the other hand, someone starts out racing at the regional level, and finds they're not doing so bad. Perhaps the top half of the field, it entices them to get better and better and eventually, maybe they'll start winning Regionals. Then they decide to run Nationals and they start in the back half of the field again, but work their way up. Soon they make the top 10 in points and get to the Runnoffs, perhaps doing rather well. And who knows, maybe somewhere down the line they make it to a professional series. That's the beauty of feeder series and tiers of competition. You're not thrown to the sharks right off the bat and those who want to improve can, those that don't want to improve don't have to and can still have fun.

[CitationFV21]

I think we are getting into 2 different conversations.

To go back to the idea of a regional championship:

5 or 6 regular races - all races count for points, no less that 3 weeks in between races with the exception of 1 double race weekend allowed.

1 Championship race at the end of the year. Double points - you don't get points unless you register for series ($25.00 fee paid no later than 1/2 way though season. Total points determine regional champion.

Now, you take $20 added to all entry fees for regular season and apply to Championship race to encourage people to attend (exact math TBD) So the National guy who runs 1 race "donates" $20 to the regional fund. So does the regional guy who runs 1 or 2 races a year.

Yes, it could end up costing the same, but I bet the entry for the Championship race would be very tempting.

If someone steps up to National Racing the next year, he or she have a clue as to what it will take.

I would really like to see the entry fees fixed to the series and not tied to the track.

This idea could result in consistant race groups and full season competition.

ChrisZ

[remmers]

Now that sounds like it could work... Although, I very much liked the Double Regionals once a month. It was nice to save on tow money as I was running on an extremely limited budget.

[jpetillo]

This is an interesting thread. I think one solution won't work well across the country because of the different car counts - not that anyone's suggesting that. It's funny that people are suggesting all one series - combining regional and national. I came from the motorcycle world where we have multiple levels per class - 2-3. The first thing a driver wanted to do was get out of the novice class where all the accidents happen. That was a real motivator! Also, it gave drivers more of a chance to race with people at their own level. This was a great motivator as well. The thing is that you couldn't stay in a class as you accumulated points, unless you didn't race much and didn't get enough points to advance. But, you could stay in the expert class once you got there. For me and I think a lot of others, double race weekends make it affordable. Just some thoughts.

[Fos]

It's very common for me to take a tangent.

It seems to me part of the problem is weighted license renewals. The weights feel like they add up. I was about to expound on that thought when I received another tangent to follow.
No one will get my point either!

Anyway... once apon a time there were ProVee races that were regional races held at nationals. This means what JP said... you have both groups at the same weekend. Our advantage(?) was we had two sanction numbers for our license maintenance.

My point is when I started national track time was (is?) 2x better than regional tracktime. Tracktime is half the battle with regionals and getting better personal/car/track performance.

Maybe this concept doesn't need to be two separate race groups. We could mark the regional class with an identifier (oh, gee, let me think... R?).
Yes the regional guys would/might get lapped by the national guys but it's probably only once! And if they held on for one or two turns they might realize their tires/horsepower/breakfastbar really are the problem! If we had a large movement we could have our own race group again and enough of the schenanigans! A regional race with national track time! Whooo hoo! I have to stop now...