ADAMS Aero Steering linkage

[rstackjd]

For reasons I can't explain (don't know why) a prior owner of my Adams moved the sterring box up to the beam and completly changed the linkage from what I understand was the original Adams configuration.

Due an "incident" at the Milw. Mile this weekend it looks like a new beam and some front end bit might be in order. As long as we're doing that I'm thinking maybe putting it back the original way might be worth doing - but I'm not sure. The current location of the box casues a number of problems with access to master cylinders and the linkage actually interfers with pedal movement on occassion, so why thye did it is beyond me.

First - does anyone have any detailed pictures of the orginal Adams Aero sterring linkage and box mounting. Second, does anyone have an opinion as to why the change might have been made in the first place (for instance - was there a handling problem with the original?)

Planning to post this in the FST forum and Apex as well.

Thanks

[hardingfv32-1]

May I assume you are talking about moving steering box above your knees? There could have been driver packaging issue with a previous owner. There is the issue of your legs below the tie rods and what happens when they fold up in an accident. Also the steer box represents something that your legs can impact in a accident. Its a trade off between these issues and better access to thinks up front. Steering geometry can be made perfect with either setup.

Also something you might have noticed. You need to have a complete spare drum to drum front end in the trailer. It should be previously used and all setup.

Brian

[rstackjd]

May I assume you are talking about moving steering box above your knees? There could have been driver packaging issue with a previous owner. There is the issue of your legs below the tie rods and what happens when they fold up in an accident. Also the steer box represents something that your legs can impact in a accident. Its a trade off between these issues and better access to thinks up front. Steering geometry can be made perfect with either setup.

Good point - it's a pretty tight fit even for a short guy like me - and yeah I can see where there's more risk in the event of a crash with the original configuration.

Also something you might have noticed. You need to have a complete spare drum to drum front end in the trailer. It should be previously used and all setup.

Brian

Yup - it's added to the list! then again, there wouldn't have been time to fix it and get back on the track Sunday anyway, but had the crash happened on the first day of a double it would be life saver. The "spares I need to get" list just keeps growing!

Thanks Brian

[ajax]

The good thing about having a spare front end available Murphies law kicks in....And you will never need it

[remmers]

The good thing about having a spare front end available Murphies law kicks in....And you will never need it

oh, i wish that were the case.... then again the spare front end I had in the trailer needed to be modified before i could mount it, so I suppose Murphies law didn't kick in...

[problemchild]

There were different variations of steering on Adams before the final version in the Bonow pics. It was a very slick set-up put required very precise set-up and an understanding of the dynamics involved. I did some work on this car about 5 yrs ago. I don't think that the person who made all the mods to this car understood or appreciated all the cool features. IMO, all the cool Adams performance stuff was removed in favor of standard conventional FV ware. As I told Bob, before he bought it, it is an Adams in name only. It can still be a great FV that was purchased at a great rice!

[rstackjd]

Thanks Greg:

I'm trying to learn how to maintain and improve my car, the right way. It seems every week I learn something new (last weekend was "Front Suspension 101" lol).

I'm fortuante to have a son who is a mechancial engineer and actually understands the "how and why" of it, but he's new to race cars as well.

My main reason for wanting to move the steering box and linkage is becasue the current configuration totally blocks access to the master cylinders and the ride-high adjuster, as well as (as mentioned before) literally hitting the pedals in some circumstances.

Obviously, if we change the configuration that may require some body mods as well, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Thanks all

Bob

[hardingfv32-1]

How often do you check the fluid levels of the master cylinders... once per weekend? Why would you ever need to adjust the ride height more than once?

You better have a seat with a very strong and tall forward section to prevent your body from moving forward. The anti sub belts have too much give in them. What happens if the front end folds back a little, where do your knees go?

Brian

[rstackjd]

How often do you check the fluid levels of the master cylinders... once per weekend? Why would you ever need to adjust the ride height more than once?

That's the whole problem - the location of the box currently requires moving the box to get to the front master - the cap cannot be opened without doing so. As for ride height - I agree, but I have to replace my spring pack and in order to do that, again, the entire steering box and linkage has to be removed.

You better have a seat with a very strong and tall forward section to prevent your body from moving forward. The anti sub belts have too much give in them. What happens if the front end folds back a little, where do your knees go?

Brian

Again, I agree, and the original configuration may not be optimal, but I assume there's a reason they put it there in the first place. I'm looking at a variety of set-ups from different cars I've seen and hoping my son can analyze the pros and cons of each. Again, this is a winter project, not something we intend to slap together this season yet.

[rphillips]

Bob,

I would look into using master cylinders with a remote reservoir and installing a ride height adjuster in the beam.

Ray

[hardingfv32-1]

Yes, not being able to remove the cap is unacceptable.

The original design probably has the lowest amount of bump steer of all the FV steering system every used. The question becomes how valuable is that to the overall design of the front end. I do not recall the Adam's handling being any better than other modern FVs. No front end design has stood out over the 45 years of this class. Within reason, I'm not sure it matters much. This being the case, packaging and cost concerns can play a larger role in the design process.

Brian

[rstackjd]

Bob,

I would look into using master cylinders with a remote reservoir and installing a ride height adjuster in the beam.

Ray

I'll look in to the remote master cyl idea. The ride height adjuster IS in the Beam - and the box is directly over the top of it. That's the problem.

[ external image ]

The above pic might help, but it's hard to see. The front MC is directly under the box. The ride height adjuster is directly under the pitman arm (I think that's what it's called, and faces the driver (on the back of the beam instead of the front)

[remmers]

someone did a really bad job with your beam then, the way we have it on our Protoform, the adjuster faces forward, so you can get at it with the nose off. I would suggest cutting it out and welding it back in with a better orientation, but idk if you'll chop too much material away when you do that.

however, i do not see where you would have interference with the pedals and steering linkage from that picture... does the problem only occur at full lock?

[rstackjd]

someone did a really bad job with your beam then, the way we have it on our Protoform, the adjuster faces forward, so you can get at it with the nose off. I would suggest cutting it out and welding it back in with a better orientation, but idk if you'll chop too much material away when you do that.

since I might be needing to replace the beam anyway due to "the incident" at the Milw. Mile this weekend - that problem might go away anyway.

however, i do not see where you would have interference with the pedals and steering linkage from that picture... does the problem only occur at full lock?

happens between 2/3 -full lock. It's not really a big problem, just an annoyance. Wouldn't go to the bother of moving stuff around just for that issue, but if I can fix it as part of other things, - bonus

Still have the master cyl problem even with a new beam, but the remote MC idea might solve that.

[brian]

Am I missing something or is that flex joint on the steering column sitting mid air without a brace? Not really sure that would work. If you make a new beam take some time and reposition the adjuster so it will be acessable. As Brian said, you won't be adjusting height very often so it can be stashed. I rotated mine like the P rotoform guys so it's easy to reach. Take the time and really think out the placement. It's a real challenge to anticipate the spring wrap up so figuring out where to place the square boss took me some time. Some flolks place their hydraulics under the legs to make room up front. Takes some linkage but works really well. You can fab a bolt on bracket that uses the 4 bolts of the h beam to hold the masters and place them anywhere you want.

The drag link system the Aeros used is a bit dated and while it's impossible to have toe change, some systems do suffer from roll steer. Meaning if only one side goes under bump, it will tend to steer in that direction.

[rstackjd]

Am I missing something or is that flex joint on the steering column sitting mid air without a brace? Not really sure that would work. If you make a new beam take some time and reposition the adjuster so it will be acessable. As Brian said, you won't be adjusting height very often so it can be stashed. I rotated mine like the P rotoform guys so it's easy to reach. Take the time and really think out the placement. It's a real challenge to anticipate the spring wrap up so figuring out where to place the square boss took me some time. Some flolks place their hydraulics under the legs to make room up front. Takes some linkage but works really well. You can fab a bolt on bracket that uses the 4 bolts of the h beam to hold the masters and place them anywhere you want.

The drag link system the Aeros used is a bit dated and while it's impossible to have toe change, some systems do suffer from roll steer. Meaning if only one side goes under bump, it will tend to steer in that direction.

Well most of what you said wnet right over my head but I think I got the jist of it - thanks!

As for the steering column, there is a brace up there, but it's out of the view in the shot. But it's there (two actually - another bit of "interesting" engineering).

[remmers]

Am I missing something or is that flex joint on the steering column sitting mid air without a brace? Not really sure that would work.

I would assume the steering wheel is rigidly mounted as well as the steering box obviously being rigid too. then a brace on the intermediate wouldn't be necessary. Only works if the wheel is unable to wobble or slide in and out.

also, I would cut down the bolts you're using on the flex joints. you don't need a 10-32 stabbing you through your leg.

[brp]

Bob,

If you want to drive to Appleton (Freedom) Wisconsin some weekend, you can look at the later steering arrangement on my Adams car. You can look, take pictures, and measure to your heart's content. Mine has the single tie rod arm between oth spindles and then the triangular piece that connects to the steering box's pitman arm.

Mike Beaumia

you can email me at mbeaumia91 @ att.com or get my phone number from Bob Lybarger.

[rstackjd]

Bob,

If you want to drive to Appleton (Freedom) Wisconsin some weekend, you can look at the later steering arrangement on my Adams car. You can look, take pictures, and measure to your heart's content. Mine has the single tie rod arm between oth spindles and then the triangular piece that connects to the steering box's pitman arm.

Mike Beaumia

you can email me at mbeaumia91 @ att.com or get my phone number from Bob Lybarger.

Hey Thanks Mike! My son is an engineer in Oshkosh so you're just a hop skip and a jump from him. I'll check his schedule and get back with you!

[rstackjd]

also, I would cut down the bolts you're using on the flex joints. you don't need a 10-32 stabbing you through your leg.

Probably a good idea!