FORMULAVEE.ORG

I'm sure this has been dicsussed here before, but in cars like ours, is there any appreciable difference in performance between 110 Leaded race gas compared to 100 LL AvGas?

Nope

I think our engines could run just fine on pump gas (fuel cells are a different story) but PG won't pass the SCCA fuel tests.

Thanks guys - not worth spending the extra $3.00+ per gal. then I guess

When I run down the straight against Grimes we're the same. He runs av gas, I run 110 octane track gas. His av gas is faster in the turns though!

I have found that a 50/50 mix leaves my exaust pipe the nicest shade of gray. but most of the time I run 100% av gas. have a nice air port near by. they seem to get exicited to sell it for a race car, even though my recipt says "airboat" on it
THOR

I would be careful mixing 110 and Av gas, you might want to test it for legality before you are asked to give a sample. I think you will be surprised to see it will fail SCCA tests.

Dave

care to share any dyno numbers av vs. vpc12?

unless something big happens I won't finnish high enough to get tested. it is not easy driving a vee one handed, so I do the best I can.
THOR

Nope

I have seen a significant difference in HP based on different fuels. You will have do some dyno testing to figure it out.

Mystique Racing wrote:I have seen a significant difference in HP based on different fuels. You will have do some dyno testing to figure it out.

Scott,

Bob is a newbie/regional racer (3 or 4 FV races to date) who asked "is there any appreciable difference in performance between 110 Leaded race gas compared to 100 LL AvGas?" and your suggesting he starts a dyno testing program so he can "figure it out". With the skill level of a typical newbie/regional racer, he could burn nitro-methane for the weekend and it most likely would not make any difference in his lap times.

Bob is really asking if spending an extra $3.00 per gallon for race fuel (brand/type un-known) will make him go faster. In 99% of the cases where this question is asked, the answer in "nope".

Bob is a newbie/regional racer (3 or 4 FV races to date)

First of all, How am I suppose to know Bob is a new/regional racer ???

is there any appreciable difference in performance

Sorry, but the answer is yes. There are guys spending $1500.00 for manifolds that have an "appreciable difference".

Bob is really asking if spending an extra $3.00 per gallon for race fuel will make him go faster

Well, I haven't watched Bob drive so I cant answer that question, although it could. Bob will ultimately have to make that decision.

care to share any dyno numbers av vs. vpc12?

BTW, Bob isn't the only one asking questions on this topic. My response was not directed specifically at Bob.

You will not see any difference between 110L and LL avgas with the normal dyno test.

Novice please note that this class is 45 years old. There is not much that is new any more. With something like REASONABLY priced fuel that anyone can test themselves, there will be a consensus that rapidly develops when something is of benefit. If there is no consensus, them it very likely has no benefit. The more people testing the idea, the faster thinks shake out.

Brian

Yikes!

Bill was right - I'm cheap I wanted to know whether it was worth it for me to spend just about twice as much for 110Race Gas vrs. 100 LL at the local airport. I thinkI have theanswer for now at least.

Thanks everyone.

BTW Bill - it's 6 races thank you very much! lol

There are fuels that will give more HP in a Vee. However, the difference between 110 and LL 100, is not measuarable on the dyno. This assumes your carb is jetted for the particular fuel SG that you are using. (allthough there isn't much SG difference between LL AV and 110.)
Don't spend you money on fuels until you are missing the podium by a hair. Spend it on tires and seat time.

I have a quiet airport 20 mins away which will sell me Avgas. My the time, I put gas in my truck, and spent more than an hour messing around ..... buying avgas is really not any cheaper

Finding the right airport is very important. You need a self service station. 100ll.com will tell you what is available and a little work with MapQuest will tell you how far of your planned route to the track these airports are.

Brian

If you're talking about legal fuels, there is little difference. With the exception of the Ruoffs, I run av gas all year. Most of the race gas I've tested tends to go stale very quickly and will underperform av gas after about 45 days. With different ignition timing, I've seen a teeny bit of improvement at very high rpm with fresh race gas. This whole discussion is different when talking about higher compression motors. Many FF guys swear by race gas.

100ll.com tells you the airport and the fuel providers. At my local airport, I just called two of the fuel providers and tell them I'm want to come and fill some gas cans. They are both very happy to have me come by and fill me up from their trucks.

Once again; the higher the octane the lower the BTUs per pound.

With a less than 8:1 compression 89 octane will do just fine.

Larry

But, is there any LEADED gas with less than 110 octane available?

Brian

hardingfv32-1 wrote:But, is there any LEADED gas with less than 110 octane available?

There are some, but rarely are they available at a track. VP has several, but you would have to get them from a VP distributor and bring it with you.

However, starting January 1, 2010, you will no longer be required to use leaded fuel in SCCA events. If street fuels serve your needs, you will be able to run them. Otherwise, you can use unleaded race fuels. For now, those who need to use high octane fuels that use lead will be able to do that as well.

There will be an article in the October SportsCar explaining the new fuel program.

Dave

jpetillo wrote:100ll.com tells you the airport and the fuel providers. At my local airport, I just called two of the fuel providers and tell them I'm want to come and fill some gas cans. They are both very happy to have me come by and fill me up from their trucks.

For anybody traveling near the area, Simsbury CT airport(just off rt202) is very nice about selling LL AVGAS to racers. They have a credit card pump(Like LRP). The only difference is that you prepay for the exact amount you need, so don't over estimate whay you will use!

I hate to dig up an older thread like this, but I did not see anyone mention CAM2. Due to the recent flooding, my normal AvGas access is in question, but CAM2 should be accessable on the other side of town. I know it is a leaded fuel as well, and still cheaper than the at track station.

Is CAM2 still SCCA legal?
And how does it compare to the AvGas/Race Gas debate?

"Cam 2" is the generic name used for Sunoco Race Fuels. You can expect the same consistent high quality performance from Cam 2 Racing Gasoline that you get from Sunoco Race Fuels because the names are interchangeable. It is the same product, made in the same facility by the same people. We use this name wherever the "Sunoco" brand name cannot be used, such as gasoline outlets which carry a competing brand of street gasoline. Cam 2 is available in 110, 112, and 116 octane leaded, and 100 and 104 unleaded. Please refer to the specs and MSDS for the Sunoco fuels listed above.

From http://www.bazellracefuels.com/racingfuels.htm#CAM 2