Runoffs practice tickler

[Rickydel]

Addressing all drivers anticipating attending next year's Runoffs at Road America.
I hear that the first couple of practice days will cost a driver $1200/day with a cap of 40 cars allowed. Youch.
I think the price goes down to $1000/day with a cap of 50 cars after a couple of days. This information will be confirmed.

In the meantime, I have a proposition that can benefit you, our vee group, and our sanctioning body.
The weekend prior to Runoffs practice, VSCDA, our vintage group, is racing at Road America.
Our entry fee this past season was $400 for a three day event. While our vee group practiced with other formula cars, our race was vees only. With a boost of a few more vees, we could have a vees only group all weekend.

Of course, it would require you to travel to Elkhart Lake a little earlier, extending your time and living expenses some. I ask that you weigh it and get back to me on this forum. If there is enough interest, I'll present it to our race group, and pending their approval, the VSCDA board.
Whatcha think?

[tppj]

Admittedly, I've been out of the game for 30 years (Yes, I'm a dinosaur!), but holy crap! Why doesn't the SCCA treat the runoff qualifiers with some respect? After all, they're the top dogs, and it just seems to me that somebody vomited on the red carpet! I guess this truly is the sport of kings.

Tom

[SR Racing]

While I have no great love for the SCCA, I don't think they are directly responsible for the practice day costs. That is the track. One of the reasons they participate in the Run-Offs bidding is the practice day and concessions, etc $.

[FV80]

Sorry, Jim - but I have to disagree. SCCA is engaging the Runoffs tracks for PAY - *HIGH* pay. The tracks pay National big bucks to get the event ... then they just take it right back out of the pocket of the Runoffs participants in Test Day and Garage/Parking fees. This is SCCA's way of making the Runoffs people PAY for SCCA for everyone. SCCA can "CLAIM" that they take NONE of the money, so it's the track's 'fault' and they have no control over it - HA!! So, the few (~700) Runoffs drivers every year essentially 'cover the bill' for everyone else, so SCCA can continue to say "we're holding the line on expenses so your membership fee doesn't go up (much)".

I consider it quite a travesty myself and NOT FAIR at all - but then, what *IS* fare these days .

Steve

[brian]

I have to second what Steve says. While Heartland apparently did not pay anything until a certain number of entrants, MId Ohio paid about 250k of which 80 ended up in the tow fund but only after folks complained.

The BOD refuses to share the Request for Proposals that is sent out to the tracks and I suppose it's because it contains so many requirements like 40+ golf carts and tents that folks would complain.

[hardingfv32-1]

STOP going. Let's start a new championship race. Does it matter that you win the Runoffs or that you beat the best your class has to offer. Is the Runoffs just a bad habit the old timers can't kick? I know there are social aspects, but are they worth it?

If a group of Vee racers can form FST, we should be able to form an FV championship race.

Brian

[jjflip]

wow $1200 a day for practice...what a joke...what planet is the scca on atm? I really do believe they have control over this matter, it would all be in the proposals and contracts that apparently we arent privy to. Lets look at it another way, if we really were able to organize a boycott and not a single car took to the track for practice dont you think it would be a different story next year? Of course there are many people that dont consider $1200 to much to pay, even in these horrible economic times.
While my goal for next year was/is to qualify for the runoffs, i am definetely operating on a limited budget. So therefore it looks like even if i do qualify there isnt much of a chance that i will be practicing much for it. I bet that makes my (possible) competitors feel all warm and fuzzy.
The question was posed (many times) in another thread questioning the future of Vee's...i question the future of amatuer racing ..period.

this is just my $.02

Jeff

[maurus97]

Much like gasoline, as long as people continue to buy, prices go up. The question is, where is the breaking point? But outside our vee world, there are plenty of other people in other classes who show up to these CLUB events with 6-figure tow rigs and racecars to match so if you're the SCCA and see this, why not charge $1200.00? I think it's outragous too I'm just playing devils advocate

[clubford00]

There is only one way to stop it, Are the competitors willing to do it ?

[jrv]

The Runoffs at Road America may not need much practice. Here is one for laughs.

In the '60s Denny Hulme ran four laps at RA and set a new record. He had not raced there before. Someone asked him how he did it and he told him it was simple, "The course is a bunch of 90 degree turns!"

Fast, but not "technical."

Jim V.

[FV80]

Just to clarify a couple of things...
I have NO INPUT from Road America on this, so am guessing...
The OP indicated that the *EARLY* practice days are ~$1200. That is not too terribly unusual for the Runoffs in recent years. The first couple of days have ALWAYS been considerably more expensive than later days. RA is a longer track and therefore can tolerate even MORE cars at these high rates.

We can HOPE that the later days in the week will come down. I think it's been something like
Mon - 1200
Tues - 1000
Wed - 750
Thur - 700
Fri - 650
Sat - 550
Sun - 500
or so - with increasing numbers of cars allowed each day. Monday practice is for the BIG DOGS - who want almost PRIVATE TRACK conditions. Does it belong in amateur racing? I don't think so, but it is what it is - what the market will bear. Most of us don't care because we can't be there on Monday anyway .

Hopefully, we'll get some better idea of just what its going to be like come spring

- and if you CAN get up that way in a timely fashion, the event mentioned by the OP *IS* a viable option. You will get a LOT less track time generally - and it MIGHT be a tad more 'dangerous' under REAL race conditions, but ...
Steve

[Speedsport]

Steve is right. The runoffs test days always start out high early in the week, then get cheaper as the days go on. Mid-Ohio and Heartland were the same way. Test days on Monday and Tuesday were well over $1000.

But on the other hand, RA has to be one of the easiest tracks in the country. It is definitly the easiest track I've ever raced on. I think practice time would be better spent studying a NASCAR race at Talledega to learn drafting techniques. That's all that will be required. Trust me.

[brian]

Having won the Sprints, I'm reluctant to agree, but RA is an easy track and it takes little talent to run a straightaway. My discription of RA is; "go like hell make a left, go like hell make a right..etc...... Like Michael says, being a winner at RA is a lot of luck, working the draft and being in the right spot on the last lap, determines the winner. It's a beautiful facility and the food is great.

I can see the clans lining up on the pit lane now so they can have drafting partners for qualifying. Road Atlanta all over again.

[hardingfv32-1]

It might be a simple track, but you really don't get many laps per session or race weekend because of the length. It would be nice to get the brake points right. Is the pace car/full coarse yellows used much?

Brian

[jb_11]

Brake points are easy. Hold the throttle til you see God, then brake. There, I saved you $1200.

Seriously, though. I think it was a mistake to make all four days of Runoffs week count for qualifying. They should have kept at lease one session as a free practice.

[clubford00]

Due to the shear size of the track, only a massive accident with track blockage would / should bring out a pace car. Now being the runnofs who knows what scca will do. I guess it depends on who THEY want to win! yeah i said it !

[brian]

Look again, it's only 3 days of qualifying. They took a day away to make room for every class.

[Rickydel]

Okaaaaaaay,,, a bit high-jacked.

So, I'll ask the question, are there any Current Spec. Vee drivers out there that would like to join us the weekend prior to Runoffs testing?

Yes, you will be asked to run your car within the "Vintage" mind set. Does that mean drive slowly? No. Just that driving in traffic will need special attention, more room and no dive bombing.

The intent is that even the races would be treated as test sessions by Current Spec. Vees, so finishing position should not be an issue.

[tppj]

The intent is that even the races would be treated as test sessions by Current Spec. Vees, so finishing position should not be an issue.[/quote]

That reminds me of a story. Attending a regional race at Brainerd in May 1969, I moseyed over to the fence to watch Formula A, B, C, and Ford. I expected to watch a tussle between three Formula B Brabhams, because there were no Formula A cars entered. Well, it turns out there was a late entry: Jerry Hansen rolled onto the track in his brand new McLaren M10A Formula 5000. He was testing for the professional season opener at Riverside. He absolutely blistered the pavement lap after lap, repeatedly smashing the track record. He was MOVIN'!! He then pulled into the pits and got out of the way of the REAL race, so the boys could finish with no distraction. It was a classy move. Afterward, I saw him sitting on a trailer in the paddock, being debriefed by Scotty Beckett, his crew chief. It was quite a display od 10/10th driving!

Tom

[FV80]

...
So, I'll ask the question, are there any Current Spec. Vee drivers out there that would like to join us the weekend prior to Runoffs testing?..

Ricky - probably a bit early to be asking for commitments for that event a year away, but I'd guess that you might have a few takers come time.
If you have to *DO* something to make the possibility happen, I'd suggest that you go ahead and approach your sanctioning body with that idea. At least for the racers within reasonable driving distance, it is certainly a viable option. Start promoting it around June of next year .
FWIW,
Steve

[Rickydel]

Stevan,

You're right. I worded it incorrectly.

Are there any drivers that "might consider" using our vintage weekend for track time? No commitment necessary right now.
Is it a good idea, or bad idea, and why?

Comments made in other forums stated that racers are racers and there will be no tempered agression just because it is a vintage race weekend.
Do you guys agree or disagree? The theory is that after a season of racing nationals and qualifying for the Runoffs, no Runoffs participant would want to risk hurting their equipment during our vintage weekend so they could finish first. Rather, they 'd be on the track figuring out the line, brake points and car set-up.

All input is welcome.

Thanks.

[FV80]

Ricky,
Personally speaking, I WON'T be interested in taking advantage of your offer ... HOWEVER, if I had never run the track and lived close enough to make the travel viable (towing or not), I certainly would. Having the opportunity to 'see' the track with multiple sessions on multiple days would seem to be quite valuable to me. I would also HOPE that any Runoffs competitor would be capable of 'turning himself down' - and hopefully staying out of any Vintage racing going on as well. That doesn't seem like too much to ask to me .
Steve