New HANS device info

[RacerGeek]

Information on new HANS devices and pricing from PRI was posted at ApexSpeed.com. Now you can get a new HANS for less than a set of tires.

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[JimR]

I read somewhere that this device is a half a pound heavier than the carbon composite unit.

While I found a used Hans last year at a good price, I would expect that this $695.00 model is not suitable for FV as the angle is likely wrong. From my perspective I have an issue with a 20 degree unit at one price and having to pay a couple hundred bucks more for a 30 degree model. Hans also is outrageous for parts and they don't believe in free trade as they price lock their suppliers. I value their product but I don't have to like the way they do business.

Jim

[RacerGeek]

Jim,

All valid points, but the one poster says that the prices are now for all angles and all sizes. Here is what was posted on ApexSpeed.

Hans did have the new Sport Series $695 Hans device at PRI.

This weighs approx 2 oz more than the Extra Series model.

It will not be available until Jan 2008.

The initial production run will be for all sizes of the 20 degree model. The 30 degree will follow, no 40 degree models are planned for the Sport Series.

Hans has announced new pricing for the other models. $895 for the Extra Series, and $1,295 for the Pro. The Pro is substantially lighter than the Extra model.


When you consider that 30 degree models used to be around $1100, adding 2 ounces to save $400 is a worthwhile trade off that puts it at a price that is easier for an amatuer racer to justify. Like you, I purchased one used last year and had it retro-certified. I found the people at HANS to be very easy to deal with and while the prices were not cheap, there was a one day turn-around and the quality of what I received was very high. I would recommend them to anyone.

[brian]

I agree with Jim and consider the R&D long since paid for and there's no reason, especially since it may become required in SCCA, for the prices to be so high. I heard they pulled several dealerships simply because they discounted prices.

Here's something that sure to start the keyboards: I've been told that if you have a highly reclined seating arrangement, that the HANS is not recommended. My seat is practically a lay down and my helmet sits on my chest so I don't think it could rock forward and snap my neck.

[jpetillo]

I don't know how true it is, but I heard and/or read about the cost diffrences in several places last year when I was looking. Supposedly there's more manual work required in the manufacturing process for the higher angle models to get a sufficiently consistent performance, and that's what the price increase was about and also why the 40 degree model was canned from some product lines - the Economy (now called Extra) line, I believe. Anyway, I'm sure that there are dramatically less sales for the higher angle models - too many race cars with roofs!

My seat measures over 45 degrees, so I thought that even the 40 degree model wouldn't work. But, being a skinny guy, the 30 degree was suggested by several people, and it fits me and the car perfectly. The difference is that being thin I have more movement to go before my helmet hits my chest. I'd guess that the 30 degree would work for most, though. At first I when I sat in the car with the 30 degree I said no-way. Once I made some really minor seating position modifications, it really was the right one. The 40 wouldn't have worked. So, don't be to quick to judge if you get one. Oh, most dealers will swap them in case you get the wrong angle - ask first. I got mine from SRacing.

About whether with a lay down position the HANS wouldn't work, I wear one and mine clearly will do its job, even with my helmet hitting my chest - well, it hits the HANS. I think it's even more important to have a HANS for the more extreme angles that we all have. Your back is fairly horizontal, and your head is going to go straight forward in an impact. I can't think of a worse situation to put your neck under. Even with your helmet on your chest, it will try to stretch your spine - the HANS will limit that.

I've hurt my neck before from hyperextension (or whatever it's called) that the HANS is designed to minimize. I can tell you that I never want to do that again. It was over a month of constant agonizing pain and I was young guy at the time, and it luckily mostly subsided kind of all at once well into the second month. There's nothing worse than aggravating neck pain. It bothers you anytime you're not lying down, and you're never comfortable. I was guessing that I was going to have the problem for life - luckily not.

I know several other people with a similar neck injury story to mine, and they now wear a HANS.

Just spend the money - as little as possible of course - get one, and never look back. Just like you'd never drive without a helmet once you wear one, I'd never drive without the HANS now, too.

Oh, and I don't like the HANS sales practices, either.

John

[Mystique Racing]

If you are a manufacture you must protect your dealers with pricing control. I salute the Hans people for eliminating dealers that don't play fair. If any of you owned your own manufacturing company you would do the same thing.
I must admit that I am a little disappointed, I just bought a new Hans device last year and now they come out with one that is 50% less. Ouch!

[SR Racing]

We are Authorized factory trained Hans Reps. The new model ($695) will be available in both 20 and 30 deg units. The only difference is weight. The economy model is 1/2 lb more the the Advanced model and the Advanced model is 1/2 lb more than the Professional Series. Strengh ratings are all the same. The Carbon Fibre content is the only difference.

BTW, They also lowered the price on the Advanced series (30 degree units.) (But raised the price on the 20 deg units.) Most Vee guys will want the 30 deg units. Some of the more upright guys (Adams, BRD, etc) can use a 20 deg unit.

We have all in stock, (except for the new econ models, which may not be available until after the 1st.If your ready for a new Helmet, call us and we can make you a great deal on a combo price and install the Hans disconnects for you at the same time.

[SR Racing]

Hans does protect its dealers, by protecting the margin. Which is nice. I would hate to have to compete in the Wal-Mart environment. (As an example, They sent us all a letter that said if we gave free shipping with a Hans device, we would be removed as resellers.)

In regards to the new $695 model and the reduced prices on the 30 deg Extra models: We dealers were kept totally in the dark until about 48 hrs before the announcement. As a matter of fact, I purchased one 30 deg unit a couple days bofore the price reduction and they didn't say a word. I sold it at the new reduced price.

We only received the pre-announcement stuff on the $695 Econ units, last Monday.

[brian]

Jim, thanks for the details about the HANS. I personally have no problems with manufacturers setting prices and policies.

Have you heard anything about the high angle seating arrangements? I got the word second hand but supposedly from Hubbard himself that the HANS may even be a liability in the reclined position. When I broke my neck it was in a rear impact and was caused by the sudden deacceleration of the vehicle. Seems a part of my neck still was moving after the restrained part stopped. Think headrest.

[hardingfv32-1]

The HANS will work fine if you get the right angle for your driving position. You have to get the tethers as close to horizontal as possible, or parallel to the forces being applied. This is not always easy to do with all seats and headrests.

In rear impact your head will spring off the headrest while your body is restrained. Very hard to get around this, although using the min amount of padding should help. A HANS would also help control this rebounding.

Brian

[SR Racing]

Brian,

Sorry no I haven't. Actually Dr. Hubbard was at the PRI show and was accessible. They are also very helpful whenever I call them. I would give them a call. They like to talk about the product will be more than happy to talk to you. 1-888-HAN-999

Jim

[kevin willmorth]

Looked at the new Hans at the show. Nice piece and great price. If I could get one in my car, I'd do it.

In my case, I would have to modify the fuel cell, the main body, the harness connection point, and the roll bar down-tubes. Even then I would have a hard time getting into the car wth the device, short of getting in, and then having someone put the device in, then the helmet. Getting out would be even more interesting, as the device would have to be removed first, to give me room to move.

I struggled with the Hutchens device for a while, and was not able to make it work right, as the ball-cruncher strap connection to my harness was just never right. I changed to the D-cel to solve the problem, which I can fit into the car with, even though one tether has to be connected after I am seated, since I need to drop a shoulder too far to get in. Getting out is easy once I release the tether connections, since al that remains then is some webbing.

The R3, and other devices I have seen are impossible to fit in the car - no room to have anything own my back or over the shoulder to the rear.

Are the forces in FV worth al this effort? Yes... in fact they are. The problem is not in the normal everyday type of spin or angular impact. The problem is in the flip/roll scenerio, where both lateral and longitudinal forces can generate unpredictable high G forces instantaniously - which is wheree the big injuries occur. It only takes one serious crash to put ones life on a whole new track, or worse. Yes, many racers play in the sport for long careers without any protection... what is not heard on these forums, or others like them, are the stories of those who died, or were seriously injured to the point where racing is no longer an option. They are not posting on these sites, as they are too busy with physcial therapy, or learning a new career with a broken neck.. or worse. I know several x-racers with serious neck problems that have put them out of the sport, who would have benefited from even the most rudimentary restraints. They are not in racing any more, so they are not here to relate their experience.

While the D-cel and others like it are not perfect, they have served many in sprint cars, NASCAR (prior to the rules change) , and sports cars, for a long time. Sprinters have found the strap devices adequate even in some of the most severe twisting rolls. The point? Running without any protection because of the cost of the Hans, or lack of fitment, is an error. Regardless of the hype behind the Hans, there are other options, and while maybe not as effective at the extremes, are certainly effective enought to reduce the risk of serious injury substantially.

As far as Hans in lay-down driving positions? F1, IRL, and CART all use them, so it appears that the reclined position is not a problem. Same for the other devices, it's how they are set up and adjusted that matters.

[brian]

Surprisingly, most of the pro cars are very upright if you get in one. It's just that the drivers are something like 5'3" and look like they're lying down.

One question I've had from the very beginning of this discussion, does SCCA really have a crisis? I can find only one case of basal skull fracture in SCCA racing and that incident occurred at an oval with major concrete everywhere. When I broke my neck a HANS would not have made a difference. They don't provide any side protection either. We have a lot more T-bones in SCCA. While I agree with NASCAR, F1 and others doing 200 mph near concrete, do we really have an established need for a head and neck device?

[CenDiv20]

I purchased a Hans last winter after speaking with other FV drivers that currently had them. Most of my opinions were the same as anyone who has not used one yet and for what it is worth, there is no excuse to not "invest" in one. I did not think I needed one, it was too heavy, too expensive, not enough room, etc... Right now would be the best time for anyone to seriously consider getting one since most cars are up on stands right now.

On top of that, anyone who thinks they can make one out of aluminum and would go through all the effort to do so, should really evaluate their priorities. I am not trying to start arguments but really think about it.

Safety "should" be everyones primary concern then "speed"... you wont even know you are wearing one.

[Lynn]

The impact that killed Dale Earnhart was 54 mph.

[brian]

I heard that about D.E. too and was amazed. I learned later at a SCCA safety symposium that it was the vector speed or the speed of the car snapping around to the wall that caused the damage.

[kevin willmorth]

I heard that about D.E. too and was amazed. I learned later at a SCCA safety symposium that it was the vector speed or the speed of the car snapping around to the wall that caused the damage.

D.E. also wore his belts loose, and improperly attached, causing it to fail diring the impact at some point, so the Hans would likely have failed to work properly. His seat was also old school with no wrap around head protection or control, and he was one of the few still insisting on wearing an open face helmet. He was not wearing any head / neck restraint, as NASCAR did not require them at the time (just encouraged their use), as he felt the devices too restricting. He had a choice to wear any number of devices, but chose not to. The aftermath of this event is not proportionate to real world conditions, and would have been far less had the driver been less beloved by the NASCAR community. Had it happened to some back marker, the incident would not have been as thoroughly investigated, and the changes in rules would not have occurred at all.

None of this changes the potential for reducing some injuries through the use of a good restraint system, properly fitted to the car and driver - including me, who has run without one as we struggled to find the right system.

[gregrobbins]

Interesting reading this thread. The DE comments are valuable and hit home. As a kid in 1964 I saw the Joe Weatherly crash at Riverside were he was killed. At the time, NASCAR only required seat belts, shoulder belts were optional. Joe did not like shoulder belts and did not use them. When the car flipped, the force caused his head outside the window striking the retaining wall which killed him.

Lesson for us is to use the safety equipment available, and use it properly.

Besides the Hans, what other head restraint systems are available and used?

I know of the Hutchins, Tucker, and G-Force. What else is available? Maybe someone who knows the options could list them and post a poll where drivers could indicate what, if anything, they are using.

[Lynn]

Isaac Device

[Daryl]

I use an ISAAC and will not use anything else currently on the market or in the pipeline.

My fear is that HANS will continue to lobby until their device is the only approved device. They will then cease to make any improvements despite the known shortcomings. What do you think a market without competition will do to their product and pricing?

[kevin willmorth]

....Besides the Hans, what other head restraint systems are available and used?...

I believe this will cover it:

Strap Systems- Use webbing to position hooks or fastening tethers that restrain the helmet.
Advantages: Lightweight, easily fit into tight cockpit spaces, does not require modifications to car, comfortable.
Disadvantages: May not provide the ultimate motion control as a properly fit and adjusted yoke system in very high energy impacts (exceeding 40G)

Hutchens original - uses a crotch strap connected to the belt system. Used to be NASCAR standard device and is still used extensively in Sprint car racing.
Hutchens D-Cel - simple strap system uses driver's pelvis as anchor, does not connect to belt system. Easier to adjust properly than original Hutchens and can be used without belts (go karts) or street 3 point belt systems (standard cars at driving events for example)
Simpsion D-Cel - identical to Hutchens D-Cel
White System - The original strap based restraint system many are based on, uses belts and pelvis for location - available since 1980, very similar to D-cel system
Tucker Helmet Harness - Strap system using the drivers mid section for anchoring the shoulder straps and lanyards. Does not require specific seat belt design (karts and street cars driven on race tracks)
Wright Device - similar to D-cel but uses helmet strap system for attaching tethers to helmet to eliminate helmet drilling
Isaac - uses strap or hydraulic shock absorver tethers from shoulder harness to helmet. Note that the system does not comply with the rule requring release of the driver from all restraints using a single latch, as the helmet restraint remains with the belts (others listed remain on the driver) requiring the helmet tethers to be released independant of the main belt system.

Yoke Systems - Use some manner of structure or belt connection device to provide anchor for tether system to restrain helmet
Advantages: Maximum control of helmet movement in frontal impacts, may protect up to 100G impact
Disadvantages: Fitment may require modification to car to locate belts properly and to provide clearance for yoke components

Hutchens R3 - Yoke up back with strap around driver chest to maintain location - SFI 38.1 approved
Hutchens II - Shoulder yoke with strap system down back and to belt system using crotch strap, least bulky of all yoke systems - SFI 38.1 approved
Hutchens Hybrid - Similar to R3 nack and shoulder yoke with straps to locate yoke for maximum angular impact protection - SFI 38.1 and NASCAR approved
Hybrid X - Same as Hutchens Hybrid with modifications to enhance protection from side impacts - SFI 38.1 approved
Simpson Hybrid - same as Hutchens Hybrid
Hans - Shoulder yoke system using head board and shoulder locating components held in place by shoulder belts - SFI 38.1 and NASCAR approved (pro only)
G-Force SRS1 - Back/shoulder board with single wide center helmet retainer strap at back- requires use of G-Force helmet only
Leatt Moto GPX - Yoke system does not require belts to function - no tethers used, restrains helmet motion from bottom edge of helmet
Leatt Moto R - Similar to GPX with additional rear helmet support - SFI 38.1 approved
Kintzi System - not yet released - supposedly will be SFI approved and NASCAR legal

Web Sites:
Hutchens http://www.hutchensdevice.com/
Hutchens Hyrbid http://www.safedrives.com/proddetail.as ... hensHybrid
Simpson http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/prod ... intro.aspx
Simpson D-cel http://www.racepartsusa.com/shop/custom ... ctid=17243
Leatt http://www.leatt-brace.com/index.asp
Isaac http://www.isaacdirect.com/
G-force http://www.gforce.com/products/helmetacc/SRS1.php
Tucker http://www.teamtechmotorsports.com/raci ... rness.html
Wright device http://www.advancedfire.com/wright.html
White http://www.speedwaysafetyequipment.com/pictures.html
Kintzi http://www.headrestraint.org/systems/kiss/index.php

Test results pages:
Hutchens angular impact http://www.hutchensdevice.com/news/Head ... raint.html
Safe Drives Test http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/lf ... d_Test.pdf
SFI 38.1 listing http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1
Hans and Hybrid results http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/lf ... _Chart.pdf

[kevin willmorth]

Some applications notes after many discussions and evaluation of available options:

The one thing all restraint systems depend upon is proper fitment. A Hans, or Hutchens Hybrid device, fitted properly and adjusted correctly, probably produces the highest level of protection. However, just because it has the labels on it and is sitting on your shoulders, does not guarantee there is protection being provided. Poorly adjusted systems are as bad, or actually worse, than nothing at all. If the system fails to control head movement, allows the helmet to strike the interior of the car, restricts movement within a car, causes the driver difficulty driving the car or seeing the mirrors, or gets in the way of exiting the car in a fire, the advantages of the system are lost.

In my own view, the selection process must include evaluation of the complete system. The cars design, the belt location, the area around the drivers head, mobility within the car, and proper fitment of the restraint to the driver when sitting in the car. A strap system may prove to be a good choice for some configurations, while a yoke system is better for others. It seems to me the best bet to achieve maximum effectiveness is to start with the top level systems - Hans and Hutchens Hybrid, and work down through other options if they are not a good fit to the configuration. In the end, a properly adjusted strap system is far better than nothing at all, and a yoke system is generally better than a strap system. Further, no restraint precludes the need to include roll bar padding and other energy absorbing surface treatments where the helmet might impact the car beyond the tether systems capabilities. Crashes are often multiple hit occurrances, not all of the directional changes are going to be within the capacity of the helmet restraint capacity.

Another factor may include the tracks one is likely to encounter during the season. Where tracks expose a driver to very high speed impacts with solid barriers (like Speedway applications with infield road courses) one might consider making modifications to the car and belt system to utilize the NASCAR / SFI38.1 approved systems. For low speed tracks with tight corners requiring maximum driver mobility and head movement, a strap system may be the best choice - especially in cars with very tight interior spaces.

In other words, regardless of the hype from any of the manufacturers, there is not perfect or ultimate choice, and selecting any system based solely on brand hype in isolation of the application may result in a big waste of money.

[jpetillo]

Isaac Device

Nice, I hadn't seen this before! I knew when I hit "Gearheads click here" that they'd mess on the physics explanation. Oh well. Anyway, it appears that they found a neat way to use dampers, and have a nice product as a result.

Daryl, how easy is it to get out of the car? Do you have to reach the pins to get out and how easy is it to feel what you're doing? Without seeing one, I'm concerned about getting out fast. I use a HANS and have a hard time getting the belt over the HANS when strapping in, but the HANS doesn't seem to hinder me getting out. If my daughter races, then I'll definitely consider the Isaac!

[gregrobbins]

Kevin, great information in your posts. Thanks.

What system do you use?

[kevin willmorth]

Kevin, great information in your posts. Thanks.

What system do you use?

I'm now using the Hutchens D-Cel. This is the simplest and least intrusive restraint (least bulky and clumsy), and can be used in the race car as well as my street car when I do track days, since it is not dependant on the belts. Since I have not heard of a basil skull fracture in FV, but have heard of kneck and head injuries from some crash conditions, I feel the strap system will provide me some protection from the injury potential I am likely to encounter, with a solution that fits in my car with no modifications, with room to allow me to get it adjusted properly - which is critical to make these things work as intended.

I attemtped to fit the standard Hutchens last season, but my wife found the sub strap connection too difficult to hook up properly in the confines of my tiny little car. If I had a little more space to work with, I would have used it.