Runoffs qualifying

[AJP]

I would like to open a discussion about qualifying groupings for this years Runoffs. I'm not complaining and have nothing against any other open wheel cars. I'm sure there was much thought behind the decisions as they were made but I'm curious about the reasoning for the qualifying groupings and wonder if there might be a better solution.
Below are the range of qualifying times (final grids) and car counts for all the open wheel classes from last year and the entry counts to date for this years Runoffs. The groupings from last year are shown as pairs below.

FV and F500 had 61 cars on track for qualifying. Road America is a large track but 61 cars, with a potential time difference of ~60 seconds from fast to slow cars from each class, and almost 20 seconds for the fastest of each class, things get busy very quickly. Especially when it takes over a minute just to get us all out from the grid.
Last year, as far as I know, there were no major issues other than the normal anxiety FV, and F500 deal with all year. This may be the reason this grouping is chosen because we are used to dealing with each other. But it seems to me, FV may have a little bargaining power considering we are the second largest entry for the runoffs and the largest open wheel group again this year also.
The laptime difference of FV/F500 top qualifiers is the largest of all the groupings. 18 seconds! The next largest is 10 seconds FC/FF.
Would F500 be a better match with another class pair? Maybe FE/FM (10 second difference for top qualifiers) Since FV has a pretty good field, could we request our own qualy sessions?
If there is another solution maybe we can work on it for next year.
Just curious on other peoples thoughts.

Andy P.
#75 Purple Citation
NER

Last Year
Class-entries-lap range
FA 15 cars 2:01-2:08
FB 10 cars 2:06-2:16

FC 15 cars 2:10-2:17
FF 22 cars 2:20-2:30

FV 34 cars 2:41-2:57
F500 27 cars 2:23-2:48

FE 16 cars 2:13-2:20
FM 13 Cars 2:15-2:20

Entries so far this year and their proposed groupings.
FA- 11
FB/F1000- 10

FC- 11
FF- 18

FV- 34
F500- 17

FE- 12
FM- 11
S2000- 7

[FVartist]

5.1. Schedule Modification: The Chief Steward may alter the schedule at any time before August 27, 2012 for any reason.
Additionally, SCCA reserves the right to modify the schedule based on the number of entries in each class.

I guess we may see if they are serious.

Bruce

[Rickydel]

34 vees are entered? Pretty good. VSCDA only had 30 at Grattan last weekend.

[brian]

While the disparity between FV & 500 seems large, the difference between those two classes and other open wheel classes is even greater. I guess the question is where could you put either 500 or vees, where they would fit better? Adding 500's to the next closest group, FF & FC would be worse for sure.

No one prefers to group classes on course for the Runoffs but it has become a fact of life right now. Drivers asked, and received a shorter week. I'm going to watch and listen to see how it works. I'll be there all week and will try to stop by everyone's pit at least once.

[G.B.]

Andy,

I totally agree, but I think a similar question was raised last year and it fell on deaf ears then and we spent our whole qualifying session looking in our mirrors.

At the time of writing, FV has the second highest entry (35) after SRF (38). Its the highest in the open wheel classes by 45%, FF is in second place with 19 entries and F500 third place with 17. The remaining open wheel classes average 11 entries.

Currently the schedule has SRF with 38 entries and SM with only 20, as the only classes which have dedicated qualifying sessions, surely with 35 entries FV deserves a dedicated qualifying session too.

Guy.

[brian]

If you asked for a separate session, where would the 500's go? They're 18 seconds slower than the FF and much slower than the FC. Having 3 classes in one group seems a bit of a stretch as well. They can't be combined with SM. It's tough call any way you look at it.

[AJP]

If you asked for a separate session, where would the 500's go? They're 18 seconds slower than the FF and much slower than the FC. Having 3 classes in one group seems a bit of a stretch as well. They can't be combined with SM. It's tough call any way you look at it.

Brian,
I don't see that they are 18 seconds slower...if you go by fastest drivers for each it's ~3 seconds.
On the other hand, fastest Vees and F500s ARE 18 seconds apart.

Three classes is a stretch...but it's only qualifying. And it's not like it doesn't happen during the year anyways with many not so well attended races throwing all open wheels together.
Also, I think the F500 guys that are really hooked up, put up a good battle for many FFs. Not that they should be battling during qualifying but my point is the national F500 drivers are stinkin fast for the most part.

What is it that makes running FV and F500 safer than say FF and F500? Or FM and F500? The lap times are closer and top speeds are closer with those pairs. Even FE in my mind would be a good mate with F500.
Is it just a carryover from the F440 days when they were a bit slower?
At Road America 2011 Q2 trap speeds for F500 vary quite a bit but probably average 130mph.
FM and FE are also around 130MPH.
So with fewer FEs and or FMs, similar top speeds and closer lap times, they would run less of a chance of even coming across each other on the 4 mile track. No?
Last year I started towards the end of the grid for my first qualifying session and by the time I got out of the grid, had maybe 3/4 lap (first lap at RA ever!) before the F500s started showing up and then every turn in was preceded by a very careful look in the mirrors. This was because there were 60+ cars on the track!
I know we are fortunate enough to have our own race group and I should stop asking questions but with such a relatively strong car count, would it be impossible to get our own Q-sessions as well?

-Andy

[brian]

Andy, I guess the time disparity really depends on which end of the grid you're looking at. It's most likely the fastest cars of the groups sent out second or third, will catch the slower cars of the groups ahead and quite quickly I would imagine.

If you read on the bottom of the schedule posted on the web site, you will see that plans have been made to split out groups with the highest qualified registrants. I think the class may have a good chance if the entries stay in the top. Short of that, I'd be looking for a friend in a 500 for a super tow.

Good luck everyone, see ya there.

[G.B.]

As I read the provision, to split groups, as shown on the bottom of the schedule, it only applies to Tuesday and Wednesday. FV qualifying starts on Thiursday, so it won't help.

[brian]

I stand corrected. I apologize, I'm a challenged reader. It looks like Thurs thru Sat. is going to be even tougher to find a place for the 500's.