Lightening axles

[Greg Davis]

I want to lighten my rear axles. What is the legal way of going about this - or is it a case of finding lighter axles out of the junkyard?

[Greg Davis]

I meant to post this in the Tech section - please forgive.

[Dietmar]

Greg:

Might try to find a split case trans and get the axles out of it.

Hope this helps
Dietmar
http://www.quixoteracing.com

[FV80]

Greg,
As far as I know, it would be EXTREMELY difficult (ALMOST impossible) and COSTLY to actually LIGHTEN existing axles... and technically NOT LEGAL. That said, there are (to the best of my knowledge) TWO types of axles available -- the older (lighter) type and the newer HEAVIER type. Although there is probably (I haven't weighed them) about 2 lbs difference between them, the rotating diameter is quite small and I don't really think it makes any measurable difference as to which you use ... except for overall weight (3 - 4 lbs?).

If you insist on having the lightest axles possible, I suggest you search a few junkyards for some early model bugs ... or just BUY what you want from one of the vendors above that might have the lighter version in stock.

Steve, FV80

[SR Racing]

Steve is very correct. The only real reason to drop a couple lbs from your axles is to drop the overall weight of the car. (and a very slight decrease in unsprung weight) It is far easier (and probably cheaper) to drop 20 lbs with a Lithium Ion battery and/or a Hi-Torque starter.

A couple lbs at the small radius of the axle at a hundred RPM would not be measurable in HP.

[Greg Davis]

Thanks for all the replies to my question. I'm 25 lbs overweight and already have the lith-ion battery and hi-torque starter and want to cut weight, but mainly in the rear for better balance.

[smsazzy]

Depending on the car, you might try some lightweight chrome moly trailing or leading arms.

[tiagosantos]

Also speed holes and filling the frame with helium might work! Well, I guess one or the other

[MarkP-2]

Greg,

How about a thinner gauge floor pan in aluminum if it's not already done.

Mark

[Dave]

Use a light weight starter.

Dave

[Greg Davis]

Mark, I have the original D-13 floor pan, but would be a little nervous about going thinner. Dave - I already have the lighter starter. smazzy - I will look into the leading arm idea. tiago - helium is so 20th century, there's got to be a lighter gas available these days. Thanks again to all for your input.

[Dave]

Hi torque starters. Are 8 1/2 lbs. You can get down to a 6
1/2 lbser. Another couple pounds saved

[maurus97]

Firstly, 25lbs overweight is not too big a deal. Ideally, at the end of a race I like to cross the sclaes 10-15lbs overweight; no more and no less. I've weighed in before just a hair above the min. and it's kind of unnerving. The last race I won, I was so scared of being below what the rules allow that I coasted in N for a large portion of the cool-off lap and then completely shut the whole thing down/off and coasted through the last turn, through the pits and straight into the tech barn...no victory lap I crossed at 1037 which was odd because I crossed at 1027 in Q2 which was a shorter session. All other weight variables were identical.
My advice: take a nice lengthy visit to the track outhouse before your races... make it a goal to utilize the plunger

Secondly, to paraphrase - "...as so to emphasize driver ability and preparation...IF IN DOUBT; DON'T...".
The above rule(s) are obviously rather subjective. My .02 is that attempting to lighten the axles for purposes of crossing the scales @ 10-20lbs less than which you currently do crosses into the shady grey area of how one chooses to define "preparation" (preparation pertaining to the very unique spirit of FV racing).

Like I said - just my .02 --- I am not attempting to open some big can of worms on this thread regarding the aforementioned and paraphrased rule.

[maurus97]

Giving your inquiry a second take and specifically how you chose to frame it; I'd say rules are being broken if you choose to follow through.
"Can this be legally done somehow?" is clear sign of doubt. And... if "IN DOUBT..." well, you know the rest. Not trying to beat a dead horse but I think that said rule - open to subjective interpretation - is very very important as it pertains to the very unique platform, history, nature and future health of Formula Vee Racing.

[hardingfv32-1]

Please note that there are a few competitors in FV that can 'honestly' interpret the rules with no 'doubts'.

For me this makes 'IF IN DOUBT; DON'T...' a statement that can not be administrated. I have no doubts, so I do..... A perfectly logical reading/interpretation of the rules.

Brian

[brian]

The "when in doubt" clause was intended to underscore the philosophy of the class and rely on sportsmanship to maintain the integrity of the class. Sadly, the prevalent trend in today's society is to be self serving at all costs and that morality is negotiable. If a competitor feels the rules don't apply to them, there's not much the club can do.

[hardingfv32-1]

The "when in doubt" clause was intended to underscore the philosophy of the class and rely on sportsmanship to maintain the integrity of the class. Sadly, the prevalent trend in today's society is to be self serving at all costs....

That is a pretty righteous statement. Most the top drivers seem pretty "self serving" with their driving on the track, but then I guess that is OK since the class is to showcase for driving. I guess the assumption is that the driver leave all the "self serving" on the track when it comes to car preparation.... I think not.

If a competitor feels the rules don't apply to them, there's not much the club can do.

Is this in reference to the "when in doubt" clause? Are you implying the competitor is doing something wrong? I would say if a competitor feels he is right then it is up to the other competitors to demonstrate that he is wrong. Claiming sportsmanship is good enough for this purpose is ludicrous.

Brian

[tiagosantos]

Like I've tried to point out many times in other circumstances, it's a cultural thing. The fact that you think leaving something to sportsmanship is ludicrous says a lot about that. Plenty of other sports in plenty of other places happily survive with gentleman's agreements and things of the sort.

[maurus97]

"Please note that there are a few competitors in FV that can 'honestly' interpret the rules with no 'doubts'....

For me this makes 'IF IN DOUBT; DON'T...' a statement that can not be administrated. I have no doubts, so I do..... A perfectly logical reading/interpretation of the rules."

Brian- I'll bet you $3,150.00 that I don't have a gambling problem. And I can honestly say that the Jack Daniels I need first thing in the morning is NOT alcoholism...I have no doubt in my mind about that. Catch my drift?

I'm not coming at you. In fact, I kind of agree with you in that it's tough to administer rules of subjectivity. Racing is unique in that, success is an ends met by innovation (one variable among many). That's what's tricky when it comes to FV RACING. Where/when does one draw a line in the sand between that which is innovative and that which callously disregards the platform of the class? I'm not quite sure. I like to think I know; but then again so do you.
I've heard stories from my old man about the track getting littered with "fan belts". I was still just a stain on the bed sheet when that was occurring which underscores the point of loopholes and preparation tend to go hand in hand when it comes to racing. It boils down to integrity and the individual.

[maurus97]

"Please note that there are a few competitors in FV that can 'honestly' interpret the rules with no 'doubts'....

For me this makes 'IF IN DOUBT; DON'T...' a statement that can not be administrated. I have no doubts, so I do..... A perfectly logical reading/interpretation of the rules."

Brian- I'll bet you $3,150.00 that I don't have a gambling problem. And I can honestly say that the Jack Daniels I need first thing in the morning is NOT alcoholism...I have no doubt in my mind about that. Catch my drift?

I'm not coming at you. In fact, I kind of agree with you in that it's tough to administer rules of subjectivity. Racing is unique in that, success is an ends met by innovation (one variable among many). That's what's tricky when it comes to FV RACING. Where/when does one draw a line in the sand between that which is innovative and that which callously disregards the platform of the class? I'm not quite sure. I like to think I know; but then again so do you.
I've heard stories from my old man about the track getting littered with "fan belts". I was still just a stain on the bed sheet when that was occurring which underscores the point of loopholes and preparation tend to go hand in hand when it comes to racing. It boils down to integrity and the individual.

[maurus97]

And apparently...my right index finger has a twitch on the CPU mouse...

[hardingfv32-1]

Brian- I'll bet you $3,150.00 that I don't have a gambling problem. And I can honestly say that the Jack Daniels I need first thing in the morning is NOT alcoholism...I have no doubt in my mind about that. Catch my drift?

I'm not coming at you.

The discussion is great.

I would say your examples are not on point. Your are implying a negative connotation to the fact that I have no doubt about my understanding of the rules. There is nothing wrong with me honestly 'thinking' that I am correct. I have a complete appreciation that in some circumstances the politics of a situation will go against me. So, the majority did not agree with me, no problem. That still would not create any doubt about my original decision, but I do adjust my behavior to comply with the new precipitant.

There is every possibility that I have some level of sociopathy, but SCCA does not have any restrictions against such sociological behavior. There for the rules must be constructed so as to not require judgement on the part of those using them.

Brian

[billinstuart]

Balancing is legal..find one light axle and balance the other one to it.

[FV80]

Balancing is legal..find one light axle and balance the other one to it.

Sorry - pretty sure that balancing is only legal for those specific parts that are listed in the GCR. NOT legal for axles AFAIK.
But a good thought, nonetheless .
Steve, FV80

[hardingfv32-1]

There is no dynamic reason for the axles to be of equal weight. So that is not going to fly, but you could balance each individual axle as an individual spinning system. Just the same as balancing the wheel assemblies.

Brian