Race Gas vrs Av. Gas

[Matt Clark]

Hmm. Interesting. I didn't even know that Sunoco basically bought them out. The CAM2 I was specifically talking about was the good old sweet purple stuff.

It appears that is equivalent to the Sunoco 110 Leaded Standard Race Gas. The Sunoco site only shows locations with their 260 GT fuel (none local to me), but Bing shows 4 local stations that supposedly have Sunoco race gas, but not what type. I kinda doubt they actually have it, but I will take a look.

I don't know what is at the pumps at the Glen and how much, though. I'll probably just get my local CAM2.

Thanks!

[Veefan]

I've used the Purple leaded for the last few years. It comes in 5 gallon drums, $70 in the Danbury CT area, not cheap.


http://www.sunocoinc.com/site/Consumer/ ... onalFuels/


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Not sure of your near either of these guys...

Bazell Oil Company
http://www.bazellracefuels.com
Russ Bradford
Tim McWhorter
Brian Bazell
1-800-521-5420


Insinger Performance, Inc.
Bruce Insinger
RR 4 Box 4333
Dushore, PA 18614
(570) 924-4323 Office
(570) 924-4728 Fax
b1w1racer@epix.net
http://www.insingerfuels.com

[SR Racing]

Guys! You have under 8:1 compression ratio, with no boost a less than wonderfull Volumetric efficiency and you are spending hundreds of dollars on 100+ Octane (and less btu) ?

Bring your cars down here and lets put them on the dyno and watch what that stuff is doing for you. The bolt on valve covers will make you faster than those fuels

Do you know how you fuel tune an engine on the dyno? You measure spark knock. Then you keep lowering the octane until you see knock or a HP drop. (while jetting for that fuels s.g.) Invariably HP will increase (or do nothing) while you drop octane until you get to knock. Also knock is mainly an issue at high volumemetric efficiency at max torque. You are NEVER running there in a ac/vw since peak torque occurs under 4000 RPM. Fuel in a FV/FST is the least of your worries.
Get fresh, premium (that passes the tests) and you will have as much HP as you are going to get.

In this vein. Who is monitoring a/f ratios? We see these engines come in here running anywhere from 11:1 to 14+:1. There is more HP gained or lost in that range than anything you will ever pick up in a legal fuel concoction. Spend the fuel dollars on a wide band a/f gauge and you will do far better. 75%+ of the cars that leave our shop have more HP across the range simply due to proper a/f ratios. And we adjust for the proper barometric pressure range. (Where you race.)

Bring your car here and put it on the chassis dyno. We will get you more HP in most cases. Certainly more than a race fuel is going to get you. And it will cost you less than your excess fuel expenditures.

If you don't care about the $, then at least buy some exotic fuel mixes at $20+ a gallon that have flame front enhancers etc. In them. OCTANE is NOT a desireable component unless you need it for knock. BTU can be. (Of course don't forget to tune your carb to the proper s.g. )

[Matt Clark]

Jim,

What about the leaded vs. unleaded? And Ethanol blends? I would be perfectly happy running my AvGas (about $4.00-$5.00/gal) as usual, but like I said, my local airport became the river. That is why I asked about the lower octance CAM2 ($7.30-ish/gal here), as it's the next lowest octane (and best smelling / cheapest step up) in leaded fuel. Do you mean that we do not need the lead? All my premium pump gas here is unleaded Ethanol blend, and I understood pump gas doesn't always pass anyway.

Should I mix CAM2 down with premium pump gas to drop the octane, but still not have the Ethanol impact it as much? A few friends & I with tuned street engines (yes, I still realize we are stock 1200 VWs) have issues with Ethanol blends, so that is why I was thinking to avoid the premium pumps.

I really want to run the correct FV fuel & also not waste money, but I'm new enough I don't understand all the variables with the different fuels, so I have to ask. Thanks.

ps- How many HP are those bolt on valve covers worth? Are they cheap HP compared to fuels & manifolds.

[SR Racing]

VW announced back in the 70''s when no lead and LL was introduced that they could be used with no problems in a VW. We have been using no-lead for a long time and have seen no valve seat recession etc. But if that still concerns people you can certainly add lead additves. (nake sure they are compliant with you cell)

Since we are running FST, I haven't paid much attention to whether pump gas will pass the current SCCA tests. If it does, I would use pump premium. If not, use the cheapest 92-100 octane you can find. Spend your extra money on tires and track time.

Fuel Safe and ATL have said 10%E is ok as long as you follow storage directions. (Either empty the cell or top it off during storage.)

Any of the above fuels should be jetted for your carb. Specific gravity varies between fuels.

[Matt King]

I wouldn't trust current pump blend fuels in my older fuel cell. Regardless of what the fuel cell makers say about their current products, I'm not taking any chances with my 12-year-old cell when a replacement is pushing $1500! Given the cost difference between AV gas and pump gas (which is only about $20 per race weekend), it will take many years to save enough in fuel cost to offset the cost of a premature cell replacement and the risk is not worth it to me, especially given the established performance of AV gas and its ready availability for me.

[Mad Dog Racing]

But this doesn't get back to the notice that SCCA is 'going green' and not allowing leaded fuels. AV gas is 100LL, that means 'low lead'. It's way less than racing fuels but unless the formulation has changed since the last time I looked it up, it has something like 1/10 of 1 percent lead. Using AV gas in the future is fine unless you get tossed for lead content. But then we all have residual lead in our cells from years of 110 leaded racing fuel, right? Sounds too much like when some drivers had to pull and refoam their cells because premium unleaded pump gas residuals set off the O2 testers. Hope they do a better job this time.

At least the green gas won't kill our engines. The GT/Prod guys likely will all have to go to limited prep engines, that's big $$$.