My letter about the FV spec intake

[cendiv37]

Ray,

Sorry for the delay. The reality is that the meeting is still going on via e-mails

We are intending to request feedback from the whole FV community before we go too far. The e-mail response to the Registry inquiry was well over 50% in favor of continuing development of a spec. manifold. However, this is not necessarily representative of all SCCA FV drivers. We've decided we want a more definitive (SCCA managed) survey done. It appears that this will be done via Fastrack, hopefully the next issue. We've tried unsuccessfully (so far) to get this done through a "survey" mailed to all FV drivers, but as we learned at the FV meeting last Sept., SCCA doesn't know which of us drive Vee's and which drive GT1's. They have balked at sending it to all 5000 competition license holders .

As far as a schedule, we will await the survey result before spending any real money. We will however, continue to evaluate possible sources and design work on the first prototypes.

I'd estimate we will make at least 2 prototypes as the next step in order to look at the effect of changing tubing sizes. We'll try a smaller cross tube ID, (closer to VW parts than the Aussie part) for sure. We might try to make something modular so we can play with different combinations of tube sizes at different points. We need to keep our other goals in mind: price, repeatability, and performance (a bit above existing manifolds).

There would likely be at least one more prototype (probably more than one) based on what we learn from the first ones. (Insert interative loop here until goals are met). Once we feel we have what we want, we estimate we will need to make about 10 manifolds to compare for relative performance. I assume these would also be circulated amongst engine builders, etc.

IF all this goes as planned, THEN we would move to production and distribution.

So when do we think we can get all of this done? In time for the 2012 Season

Making 2011 just looks too risky. There's a lot to get done. The 2012 season looks more "doable" so that's what we are going to be proposing as the target for introduction in the survey. I know most of those who would like a spec. manifold would like to see it done sooner. I know I would. It just looks like that would be too risky to promise.

Hope this helps,

Bruce

[rphillips]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the response. Although I'm not in favor of the spec manifold, if the majority of the FV drivers want it then I'm going to have to live with it. I just want to make sure that proper due diligence is spent on ensuring that what is implemented is the best that it can be for us and I'm not convinced that the Australian manifold is it. I think that 2012 is the earliest point that a spec manifold could be implemented so I'm glad that is what you have in mind as well -- again, IF the majority of the FV community wants it.

Regards,

Ray

[CSatterley]

I would say I'm on the fence about the FV manifold issue, mostly because I'm not real sure why it became such an issue this year. I have an idea considering it really got going after the runoffs, but people have stretched the rules and costs before, but maybe there was talk some time before that. I like the idea of buying a manifold that will be close to the best for around $500. At the same time I ran with someone one all year who had a newer (2008) manifold and I had my old (about 10 or 15 years old dented manifold), but I was closer to min weight, a little to close at one race. I've thought about spending money on a manifold, but figured my driving/set-up needs to improve. Will this rule help everyone? or just a few that run at the very top. I guess in the long run it may help me, but it may not. It seems a little to "up in the air" to make any descison, which has been said. Just wanted to know if people thought this will help the majority of the class or just the few. Its only a few of you that truly have the class figured out and how to go fast.Will this help a backpacker at the the runoffs?
Chris Satterley

[kps]

I would like to thank the individuals who have contributed technical opinions and information on the subject of the spec manifold. Looks like it is not a simple subject to understand. I race a combination of Nationals and Regionals including last years Runoffs. From my viewpoint I have not seen any material change in the finishing order at these races. Those who were up front two years ago are still in that relative position. Those in the middle are still there and so on. It appears that driver skill trumps most other areas of difference. I have heard no complaints from anyone on the track about someone having a advantage due to their manifold. Given this situation I would ask the members of the Formula Vee community to consider the following in making their recommendations. Rarely in my own experience do new products come in anywhere near estimates. Somehow they always cost a lot more than expected. Consider the impact to the community of purchasing new spec manifolds. Assume 300 purchases at $500. That number would include some drivers buying more than one and some low participation drivers. That’s $150,000 out of pocket for our group. Now you need to add in the cost of scraping all existing manifolds. Considering that most of us have a spare and paid anywhere from $400 to $2000 for them the total could easily exceed $ 300,000. That’s right, an impact on the Formula Vee community of almost $ 500,000. Is it worth it? Do we really need any changes at all? Each of you will need to reach your own conclusion but I hope you will consider the cost benefit relationship. John Fuchs

[jmattox]

Another voice from CFR. I agree with John. I am a relative newcomer to FV, run regionals, but, do have national license. The expense of a "new" manifold would make me decide which race weekend I wanted to give up to purchase the spec manifold. In my opinion, there are probably a lot of us out there who got into FV for cost, fun of racing and camaraderie. Not the high tech world of other classes.

John Mattox
CFR FV42

[RickyBobby]

The comments from John are appreciated and hold a great deal of credibility and food for thought. In most forms of "spec" racing (yes, I know that we're not considered "spec", but the engine component of our total package is probably as close to spec as we can get) the common denominator is usually the driver talent. In my opinion, the best and only way to determine the effect of the manifold on the outcome of a race is to use "spec" drivers.

Now that we have beaten this horse to death several times, I truly think that we should allow those who have contributed their time and effort (without compensation) to gather the data and present it to us. Once the data has been digested by all, then we can make an "educated" decision about this. Just don't forget to vote when given the opportunity. If you don't, then your complaints will be held without merit.

Bob