Head and neck restraints req'd 1/2012

[brian]

Saw in the latest Faastrac that H&N restraints will be required as of 1/1/2012. You can still write the BOD, but the Risk department (Pete Lyon) has spoken.

[Lynx94]

I wonder if this will cause drivers of cars like a Lynx or D13 to sit more upright, which might then require a taller rear roll hoop.

[MDURKEE]

This will cause my Caracla C and I to have some issues. I fit so tight in that car that I consider the chassis to be my Hans device. The back of my head rests against the helmet pad on the firewall and the chin spoiler on my helmet touches my chest. I have no room for a restraint device.

Matthew

[Doug Carter]

There are H&N restraints that do not take up the space of a HANS, like the Hutchens system. Just because a HANS won't fit in your car, all is not lost. The rule will NOT mandate a HANS, but any SFI or FIA certified device. Try different ones to get the proper fit.

The rule is coming whether you like it or not. You have 2 full years to make it happen.

[Mad Dog Racing]

I'm sure there will be a lot of comments so here goes mine. I tried on the hans at the 07 Runoffs and bought one in 08. My justification was that a 60-year-old body just doesn't resist or recover like a 20-year-old anymore. I have used the horse-collar helmet support since the late 80's and survived a couple of big shunts. I would like to have had the chance to try one of the adjustible devices, but they just are not out there yet in any numbers. I found a 30 degree hans, but if I jump into an IT car to do an enduro, it would have to be in a borrowed device.

The Protoform was easy, jump in and drive away, I thought. After half a season of fighting to get the belts to stay set as I buckled up, I found that the 6" spacing in the instructions doesn't mean about 6 1/2". I revised the mounting points and the belt problem went away. I also found that I have to have the shoulder adjustment clips about 6" lower than I have ever run them before to get them off the hans. Now they stop very close to the lap belt when pulled tight. Otherwise, they sit on the hans and catch the bottom of the helmet. With the way the belts are set now, I couldn't belt into the car without the hans in place, before with the collar, it was optional. By the end of the first session with the hans, I didn't know it was there unless I tried to turn and look someplace other than where I was driving.

The problem came in the Citation. The back of the hans hung up on the top of the seat. I ended up cutting about three inches off the top of the seat and fabricating a new mounting bracket and firewall to give myself room and relocate the shoulder belt mountings to a narrower and lower position. It wasn't something you could do at the track between sessions, but it wasn't rocket science, just takes time. It seems to me the belts need to be on the short side of 6" center-to-center and at least 6" below the top of your shoulders as you sit in the car, more if it's a span, but in vees there is no span. (I will say here that this is my opinion, be sure to seek the council of those who are more familiar with the device you will be using.)

I have an old D-13 I was thinking of putting back together for vintage, but from what I remember about how I fit in the car, the 30-degree hans may not fit. I remember using a collar with the front third cut to half half thickness to give the helmet room, it's probably still in the garage somewhere. It would probably take a 40-degree hans, which seems to be more or less a special order. Back to where I wish I had a chance to look at a variable adjustment device before I bought one.

Knowing what I do about the D-13, I can appreciate the concerns of the folks who have one of the cars with a tight, lay-down position. You will likely be revising the firewall, seat and belt mounts. If that means moving the oil filter or coil or fuel lines, or buying a new helmet, I can understand your frustration. One thing is that as I understand it, the helmet rear restraint is not required with the hans, so that adds a bit of room. (Again, that is based on what I have seen with our tech folks, you would have to satisfy yours. I keep a very minimal size and thickness pad ready to tape to the firewall if ever required, but the big one that fit up against the back of my helmet is gone. As far as the other three or four devices that may be allowed, I have no input.)

For the laydown cars, the device that fits on the back and straps around the legs might work. I just couldn't get interested in climbing into all those belts, then belting into the car. But if that's what it will take to work in your car, you do what you gotta do. The formula car guys will in my opinion have the most problems because almost all the door-slammers use the same Kirkey seats and 20-degree hans whether they have a roof or not, from GT1 to HP. I'm hoping Sportscar will do something extensive on this subject either in the safety equipment issue or as a separate item to detail what the approved devices will be.

[brian]

Thanks for the details. My car is very tight and the sitting arrangement is quite reclined. I've tried a HANS once and had many of the issues you mentioned. Like they say, we've got two years.

[Lynx94]

That's true, I was thinking of the HANS device. G-Force has one that looks better suited to a lay-down driving position.

[Doug Carter]

That's true, I was thinking of the HANS device. G-Force has one that looks better suited to a lay-down driving position.

The G-Force "strap" is not SFI 38.1 or FIA certified and is not legal. That item will not fulfill the requirement of the new SCCA rule. Make sure it is certified before you buy—not just supposedly "sled tested" by the manufacturer. Frankly, looking at the G-Force product, I'm not convinced it would do much of anything in an impact but slide up into the shoulder area of the belts.

[John Deonarine]

I have found the "Hans" shoulder belts very helpful, just something to consider when upgrading the safety harness.

Merry Christmas!

John

[jpetillo]

I run a HANS in a Caracal D. I was very fortunate - it all worked easily. I just added a thin pad behind my back and shoulders to make the room necessary for the clearance between the helmet-to HANS-to helmet pad, and all is well. I want to make a new seat so that I don't need the pad, but it all just fits right in there. My seat is over 40 degrees, but I use a 30 degree, which works well for me since I'm thin. I believe they suggest that one most of the time, and rarely the 40 degree. If you can position everything like HANS suggests, then it works out.

Like Mad Dog says, I'm not willing to put myself through a neck overextension at my age. I went through that once from a motorcycle track accident when I was young, and never want to go through that again. I bought the HANS when I started FV racing - never ran without it. In an accident last year, when I hit the wall sideways, which stopped the car's sideways and forward motion pretty fast I felt one of the HANS straps catch as my head was snapping forward and sideways. I remember thinking as my head started snapping over - "oh, this isn't going to be good" since it snapped over so fast, but then the strap caught and - nothing! Very nice. That was more like a 45 degree - it would most likely not be as effective for straight sideways, but would certainly do something.

I can see how this rule is going to be really difficult for some driver/car combinations. John

[Dave]

For those of you with a Han's and want to try the 2" belts give Tim at Safe Quip a call, he will make new shoulder straps only for you. What he will do is take a 3' belt fold and sew it over so it is 2" and add a non-slip fabric on the back to help keep the belt in place.Can also custom sew the lengths. He can make the belts for any brand as there are only several manufactures of hardware. The set he made for us priced out at $69 and they were FIA 5 year tagged (fit the Willans belt set). He also has FIA cam lock belts for about $200 but they are in short supply so ask.

Dave

[jpetillo]

Tim redid my belts this year just as you described. He also included an extra set of shoulder belts in case the HANS 2" belts didn't work out for us. Tim makes it a point to talk with you to make sure he gives you exaactly what you want.

[Ed Womer]

It is a shame that the G Force system won't pass the SFI FIA test since it is effective in front end crashes. I have had one for years and like it. I had two frontall crashes this year without any effects. Also the forward braces on my chassis pretty much stop the helmet from moving to far sideways anyway.

I need to see if the Defender passes the tests since I looked at that at the PRI show and I like it's design and definatly it's price. I am not to keen on bying a HANS since I consider it to be an over priced product and it has had some issues as well.

Ed

[Doug Carter]

It is a shame that the G Force system won't pass the SFI FIA test since it is effective in front end crashes. I have had one for years and like it. I had two frontall crashes this year without any effects. Also the forward braces on my chassis pretty much stop the helmet from moving to far sideways anyway.

Have they tested the device and tried to get it SFI certified, Ed?

I need to see if the Defender passes the tests since I looked at that at the PRI show and I like it's design and definatly it's price. I am not to keen on bying a HANS since I consider it to be an over priced product and it has had some issues as well.

What issues did you have with the HANS, Ed? Was it fit or comfort, or something else?

FWIW, the DefNder passed the SFI 38.1 certification tests a while ago (I believe it was released to the public over a year ago), so it is legal for the SCCA rule. And until the 2012 rule in effect, your G-Force strap will still be usable, with plenty of time for G-Force to have the unit tested and certified for the SFI standard. If it has already been "sled tested," they should have the information relevant to comparing to the other devices available. I haven't seen ANY numbers on this device, and util recently, didn't even know it existed. Personally, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a product like that, but wearing something is better than nothing.

There is really great information to be found on all H+N devices here: http://www.racesafetydata.info/HNR.html And because I'm not an engineer and don't play one on TV, I asked him to simplify things so that a crash test dummy could understand them. Thankfully, he obliged: http://www.racesafetydata.info/glossary.html


There is also great information found at Trakpedia.com on most H+N devices.

[Ed Womer]

Doug,

When I purchased the G Force system according to them it was the only one besides the HANS that passed the sled test. Now I think the test includes a side impact as well and G Force said they wouldn't be able to pass the test and didn't think they could upgrade what they had so they discontinued making it.

My problem with the HANS is its cost. Anyone who does composites knows that $1000-1200 is way more than it needs to cost even with a nice profit. Yes I understand development cost but with all of the pro series mandating it many years ago, they should have long ago recouped those cost and the price should go down to reflect the cost of production plus a profit.

Ed

[Doug Carter]

My problem with the HANS is its cost. Anyone who does composites knows that $1000-1200 is way more than it needs to cost even with a nice profit. Yes I understand development cost but with all of the pro series mandating it many years ago, they should have long ago recouped those cost and the price should go down to reflect the cost of production plus a profit.

I agree they are too costly for what they are. For my peace of mind, I consider them like ladders. There is no reason a simple 9' ladder should be $150, other than that cost includes the cost of manufacturing a ladder plus the cost of selling ladders to a litigious society. There are a lot more costs in a HANS device than the actual carbon layup and the machining of the mounting posts. We're paying for the insurance, the R&D, the SFI and FIA costs, and everything else. We're not just buying widgets here, and it's not all about simple markup.

Fortunately, HANS also sells a Sport model at $645, which is a much more tolerable price. At $1000 for the Pro model, it is about what a really good high-end helmet costs, so I don't necessarily consider the price completely obscene.


I do think there are some other really great options out there at much more acceptable price points. Fortunately, the market is full of products that are certified, and we're not limited to ONLY a HANS device.

[Hal]

I have used a Hutchens Device in my D-13 for several years now, very easily adjusted to the lay down position and I feel naked without it anymore. I am ahead of the trend for safety as I have always felt there are worse things than getting killed in racing, such as finding yourself motivating down the hall in the nursing home in your electric wheel chair by blowing into a straw. Just shoot me.

I don't like being told what to do, especially as I am already on board with head and neck restraints, but one thing is for goddamn sure, prices on ANY and ALL such restraints will peak in 2012.


Hal
FV 88

[FV90]

Anyone out in Vee land using a HNR in a Caracal C? What style/type and how comfortable

[subrew]

Out of curiosity, why did Lisa Noble abstain (yet again) from voting. Seems as if a position on the BOD would want someone willing to actually vote on the important issues?

Chris H.

[Doug Carter]

I just got off the phone with Lisa, and she explained a few things to me about the mandate.

Foremost, she abstained because she wasn't comfortable with the wording of the rule as it was brought to the Board. She wanted more investigation by independent organizations as to what would be acceptable standards and certifications, that would be beneficial to the SCCA as a club. She felt that more information was needed to make an educated decision, and while she wholly supports H&N mandates for SCCA racers, she wasn't comfortable with voting in favor of the rule as it is written. It's not a "no" vote, but it was not a "yes" vote, either. I believe Lisa was not comfortable with ONLY SFI 38.1 and FIA being the only standard certifications accepted.

In that, she was happy with the 2-year lead time on the implementation of the rule. She felt that this would give the members time to adapt as well as time for more research, data and information, as well as time for non-certified products to be tested and certified.


Of note, she mentioned that the Board has not received 5 letters concerning the H&N issue in the time that it was first brought to the table for review. If this issue is THAT important to the members, one way or the other, they certainly aren't expressing it to the appointed decision makers of our club. Of their surveys and data collection from members, more than 60% of wheel-to-wheel racers already use some form of H&N device, regardless of the brand. In our informal ApexSpeed polls, we found that over 90% of formula car racers either already wear one, or are planning to in 2010. Those are pretty overwhelming numbers of support from the membership base, in their actions alone.


Hope that helps clear some of that up,


doug

[FV90]

Anyone using a HNR in a Caracal C? What type? any mods to the car?

[Caracal99]

[color=#BF00BF]FWIW, I use a HANS 40 degree in my Caracal D. No problems ...no mods necessary. I believe that others have used the 30 degree model with similar results

Paul F.[/color]

[jpetillo]

I use a HANS 30 degree in a Caracal D. Just added 1/2" padding behind the shoulders and back.

[remmers]

What would people recommend for a P2 Protoform with driver sitting on the fuel cell? What degree angle HANS or if you'd recommend Hutchins or D-fender?

[supersmile]

What would people recommend for a P2 Protoform with driver sitting on the fuel cell? What degree angle HANS or if you'd recommend Hutchins or D-fender?

Dfender. I use the same one for both my Van Diemen and my IT car; it can be adjusted in just a couple of minutes for any angle seatback.