April Fastrack--Oil Sumps

[dd46637]

The pump we use does require a smaller dia. pulley. They are readily available or you can just do what I did and turn down the O.D. until the belt groove is gone. If the rule is worded correctly (Pump gear sizes specified) there would not be excessive negative vacuum.

The tank I am having made is 3"dx5"wx24"h. 360 cubic inches = 6.2 quarts. If you have a battery that sits between the fire wall and engine then you have room for a tank if you can slide the battery over to one side.

Fact: There will be a H.P. gain, not a lot 1-2 is a good guess. The benefit is well worth the cost as far as I am concerned.

Of course this may all be moot as we are talking about a request for input instead of an actual rule right now.

There are several reasons why I don't race FV even though I do own one. This subject is just one of them.

Dave

[brian]

Dave, I'm not sure what you're saying. Is the fact we don't have dry sumps or is it because we are discussing the issue that makes you not want to race your vee?

[Thomas Galuardi]

I have been driving my Formula Vee for over 30 years. I am not a front runner. It may be a matter of money, talent, or newer equipment, or a combination of all, but I enjoy the class. I don't feel my engines are ever really down on power and I go 3-4 years on a re-build. I have never "spun" a bearing or even worn out a set of main bearings. Why? Oil pressure! I run 40 plus pounds of pressure. Oil is the life blood of a FV engine so if instead of changing the rules the simple solution is to run good oil with good pressure.
Also, in years past once the GCR was printed in January that was the rules. There was no committee trying to change the rules every month. It was a big deal to go from 1000 to 1025 pounds. The class has been around for 45 years, lets race what we have.

[FVartist]

Well said Thomas.

[cendiv37]

Gotta chime in on this.

The idea to consider sump rule modifications started right here: http://www.formulavee.org/interchange/v ... &sk=t&sd=a

Included in that discussion were larger extended sumps, dry sumps, Accusumps and the need, or lack there-of, for any changes. Apparently some letters were written to the crb. This brought it through to the committee for some initial discussion. The FV committee discussed it briefly last month. I assume we will continue the discussion at our next meeting.

How this became an official SCCA request for input on dry sumps in FV, I don't know.

Whatever, I suggest all interested parties take this request as their opportunity to comment on the overall oiling issues in FV including any possible solutions and whether any change is needed for next years rules.

Another chance for your voice to be heard!

Write the crb at crb@scca.com
Remember to include your name and membership number and be specific in your opinions and comments.

[hardingfv32-1]

Yes, this stared as a simple change to the sump rule, roughly to allow 2 qt sumps.

The CBR says we need to show need for the a change to the sump rules.

How do we do this? Will the Vee Rule Committee do it if asked?

Brian

[brian]

I would suggest writing hte CRB directly and state your reasons.

[Matt King]

My question is what is the threshhold burden of proof that needs to be met. Let's say 100 (or 200 or 300 or 5, 10 or 50) of us write in asking for a sump rule change. Does that consititute demonstration of a need?

[hardingfv32-1]

That was my thought..... Do I have to demonstrate a political need , scientific need or BOTH for a change.

Brian

[pillowmeto]

The combination of a dry sump pump with at least two pick ups and the current unlimited crankcase baffling could be used to gain ~1.5 hp (by estimation) at 6500 rpm. A dry sump pump with a single passage entering the crankcase (note, I said passage not hose which could be divided into two internal portions) would limit the ability to seal the front of the crankcase from the rear. More information about this concept is available here. http://mattsengines.googlepages.com/crankcasedivision

My power numbers are not simulations; but estimates based on the results of the following SAE paper.
http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2007-01-0266

I am prepared for the flames from people who do not believe or understand this system.

-Matt

[spdunlap]

Most every serious race engine has a dry sump system of some type. Seems that if you are willing to pay $4000 to $7000 for an engine or $2000 for a manifold
or $1200 for a carb then a $400 cost for a proven dry sump is a good way to go. I imagine we have $400 in brake clean over the years just to clean uo the oil.
If as you say that most Vee racers just want to drive around then make it optional. The same guy won't do a nut and bolt check between races either. Save these precious 1200s and adopt the dry sump!