Oh No! No gears after engine install....

[Captain]

Hi All,

Thought I was in great shape (time wise) till I tried putting the car in gear today......

I removed the motor to do some work on the frame, did the work, and reinstalled the motor. I didn't touch the clutch, or anything.

Today tried to drop the car in gear and ran into a problem. Although the trans drops into gear, the trans is still acting as if the clutch is pressesd. I took off the shift linkage, and put it in a gear, so a linkage problem can be ruled out. I also poped off the piston (hyd clutch), it is still acting like clutch is depressed.

Any ideas? The motor slid onto the spline shaft really nicely, so I can't image that I screwed up that part of the install.

Sorry for the amature problem, I just can't figure it out and wanted a little more advice before I pull off the motor and try again.

Thanks
Jim

[DanRemmers]

It does sound like a clutch problem. Did you check the return spring on the release arm? Does the release arm move?

[satterley_sr]

Did you check the needle bearing in the gland nut? (when you had the engine out) If it is siezed you will not release the clutch.

Good luck.

Dave

http://www.ddcracing.com

[ajax]

Did you remove the clutch by any chance and put it back on backwards? Can you put tranny in gear when engine is not running, and if so when you rock the car you are up against engine compression?

When guiding engine in if you bump the throw out face, it can become dislodged and keep the clutch form disengaging

[Dave]

Is the clutch new? Have you taken the clips out? Are you trying to shift with or without the engine running?

Dave

[Dietmar]

Jim:

Not sure if you received my PM, so here goes.

If I read this correctly, you did NOT remove the pressure plate or the clutch disc, but when you reinstalled the engine, placed it in any gear, it acts as if the clutch PEDAL is depressed. I interpret that to mean that with the car in gear it still rolls freely and does not turn the engine as it is rolling.

If we look at this problem in reverse, we can start by describing the purpose of the clutch. If you have ever grabbed the mainshft coming out ofthe trans, you will find that it is quite sloppy- moves up and down quite a bit. This input shaft slides into the gland nut and the needle bearing that is housed there. That takes away that slop. Between the gland nut and the transmission you have the clutch disc. This disc is splined and slides over the mainshaft- and you said it went easily. Next comes the pressure plate which is bolted to the flywheel and exerts a constant pressure on the clutch disc and does NOT allow it to turn(freely)- forcing the disc against the flywheel. Beyond this pressure plate is the throw out bearing. This T-O bearing is sitting on an arm held in place by two clips. When the arm holding the T-O bearing is forced forward by either the hydraulic action of the slave cylinder or a clutch cable, it forces the T-O bearing against the center disc of the pressure plate- forcing the pressure plate to release the pressure on the clutch disc, allowing the disc to turn freely and NOT turn the (flywheel) engine with the trans in gear. You have described this condition by saying that it feels like the clutch (pedal) is depressed.

My guess is that something is pressing on the center section of the pressure plate- releasing the clutch disc and allowing the car to be in gear but not engaging ( turning the engine). The ONLY part that could cause this is the throw out bearing- either you have knocked the bearing off the arm and it is wedged against the pressure plate or you have moved the arm on the trans forward ( like re-adjusting the play or installing a new slave cylinder and the throw out bearing is again pressing on the pressure plate.

You also mentioned popping off the piston- not sure what you mean by that, but if you changed the length of the slave cylinder, then it could be too short and the arm has been moved- thereby moving the T-O bearing

Disconnect the slave cylinder completely and grab the arm on the trans and see if you can overcome the spring onthe arm and get travel. If not, the T-O bearing is wedged against the pressure plate. Or, pull the engine forward and look between the trans and the engine to see if evereything is still in the right place.

Only other possibility is that the clutch disc itself has shattered and the center section is free to turn on the mainshft without the rest of the disc, but I doubt that.

Hope this helps- because if it does not, I'm scratching my head too.

Dietmar

[flat tappet]

Jim:

Not sure if you received my PM, so here goes.

If I read this correctly, you did NOT remove the pressure plate or the clutch disc, but when you reinstalled the engine, placed it in any gear, it acts as if the clutch PEDAL is depressed. I interpret that to mean that with the car in gear it still rolls freely and does not turn the engine as it is rolling.

If we look at this problem in reverse, we can start by describing the purpose of the clutch. If you have ever grabbed the mainshft coming out ofthe trans, you will find that it is quite sloppy- moves up and down quite a bit. This input shaft slides into the gland nut and the needle bearing that is housed there. That takes away that slop. Between the gland nut and the transmission you have the clutch disc. This disc is splined and slides over the mainshaft- and you said it went easily. Next comes the pressure plate which is bolted to the flywheel and exerts a constant pressure on the clutch disc and does NOT allow it to turn(freely)- forcing the disc against the flywheel. Beyond this pressure plate is the throw out bearing. This T-O bearing is sitting on an arm held in place by two clips. When the arm holding the T-O bearing is forced forward by either the hydraulic action of the slave cylinder or a clutch cable, it forces the T-O bearing against the center disc of the pressure plate- forcing the pressure plate to release the pressure on the clutch disc, allowing the disc to turn freely and NOT turn the (flywheel) engine with the trans in gear. You have described this condition by saying that it feels like the clutch (pedal) is depressed.

My guess is that something is pressing on the center section of the pressure plate- releasing the clutch disc and allowing the car to be in gear but not engaging ( turning the engine). The ONLY part that could cause this is the throw out bearing- either you have knocked the bearing off the arm and it is wedged against the pressure plate or you have moved the arm on the trans forward ( like re-adjusting the play or installing a new slave cylinder and the throw out bearing is again pressing on the pressure plate.

You also mentioned popping off the piston- not sure what you mean by that, but if you changed the length of the slave cylinder, then it could be too short and the arm has been moved- thereby moving the T-O bearing

Disconnect the slave cylinder completely and grab the arm on the trans and see if you can overcome the spring onthe arm and get travel. If not, the T-O bearing is wedged against the pressure plate. Or, pull the engine forward and look between the trans and the engine to see if evereything is still in the right place.

Only other possibility is that the clutch disc itself has shattered and the center section is free to turn on the mainshft without the rest of the disc, but I doubt that.

Hope this helps- because if it does not, I'm scratching my head too.

Dietmar

Just amazing!!....Dietmar just gave more info in several paragraphs than I will ever know about VEE's. Thanks so much for always sharing with the rest of us!

[Captain]

Thanks everyone. Sorry for the delay, the boss sent me out of state for work.

Dietmar, we are on the same page, as far as head scratching goes. ...

Recheked all the external things, with slave cyl off, spring acts as it should, and I can move the lever (no binding).

Seperated the trans, and reinstalled the motor. Still have the same issue. Although this time I noticed if I turn the motor over by had the wheels do spin (slowly) in gear. But I can stop the spinning by just holding the tire (and with very little force)

Pulled the motor and looked closely, I can't see anything obviouly wrong, anyone else? Before I start replacing the clutch?

It really makes no since, it did work well last season!

Thanks
Jim

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[Dietmar]

Jim:

Since the engine is out, grab the input shaft leading into the trans and turn it couterclockwise a bunch of turns and see if it has separated from the main shaft and then get back to us. Or call in the morning (after 9 Pacific time)

Dietmar

[Captain]

Hi Dietmar.

Just tried and it spins over like it should.

Tried the motor again, and it suddenly works now? I am confused as to exactly what happoned. My best guess is that the throwout bearing wasn't fully seated. After playing with it with the motor out, it found its happy spot.

I have no idea really, but its back working, and looks like I'll be spending today putting it back together.

Thanks for talking me through this scare. First race only a few weeks now!
Jim

[Dietmar]

Jim:

I'm still scratching my head- but glad that it works.

Have fun
Dietmar

[sharplikestump]

Just for grins......check the splines on both rear drums. If they are good, and it was me, and chose to go with the "whisling past the graveyard" approach, I would make sure I never shifted into reverse, for the only other thing I can figure happened was the snapring that keeps the mainshaft coupler in place backed off and either allowed that coupler (which is instrumental in engaging reverse) to dis-engage, or it backed off so far, as to allow the shafts to totally seperate. If the latter was the case, you would be one lucky guy to have had them reconnect on their own. Putting it in reverse will tell you if that is the case, as that unscrews them again. The more I think about it, while that coupler sliding back 3/4 inch would wipe out reverse, you would still have the forward gears........check those drums.