Why is the Sky Blue?

[jpetillo]

I couldn't agree more with everything Jim said, and I couldn't have said it myself better (no surprise there).

If the class wants to pursue a major change such as a spec anything or any significant change, to minimize the griping, which will always happen when people are involved, and maximize the gain, we'd need a sufficiently long period of time for testing. We really want to get it as "right" as we can before we suggest the class move in that direction. And that would take some level of coordination and sponsorship money since we can't expect the FV manufacturers to foot the bill alone.

Jim's also right in that we don't want FV to become FST.

John

[CSatterley]

Let's all just switch to a spec tire. I will do it if you do it. You first. >: )
I wish that we could get a spec tire. Seems to be working pretty well for the FST guys. Maybe we should just convert to FST. : )

[brian]

Each time the tire issue comes up I reference what SF region has done with the American Racer. It was done on a regional basis and agreeed upon by the competitors. They told the region what they wanted to do and it was a done deal. National racing is another issue, but if you want a spec tire for your region, get your folks together and do it.

[rgr1racing]

We had spec tires at Nelson's Ledges a few years ago when Hoosier discounted the first R45 tires. It was a pretty simple deal-a few guys called/emailed the regular runners; we took orders and placed them with Hoosier. Then sent a truck to pick up all the tires and paid for them. And then delivered all the orders and collected the money. Ran the entire season on less than half the tire costs we were all used to spending. If memory serves correctly, we actually improved competition as more racers had better tires and there was competition all through the field. And yes, the fast guys were still up front, the middle guys where you would expect and so forth.

[CSatterley]

Each time the tire issue comes up I reference what SF region has done with the American Racer. It was done on a regional basis and agreeed upon by the competitors. They told the region what they wanted to do and it was a done deal. National racing is another issue, but if you want a spec tire for your region, get your folks together and do it.

Chris: Couldn't that be said for any rule change that falls within the rules? Why would a tire rule change be a different issue than a restrictor place or control manifold? It only takes one person to say I don't want that and its over. Besides no one listens to me, at least thats what my wife says. : )

[hardingfv32-1]

Do you mean the rules have to be changed? In SFR the spec tire is part of the Supps. You must use American Racers at all Regionals.

Brian

[CSatterley]

I was just saying that a total rule change needs to happen to be truly effective. Regions have used a spec tire before and it didn't last.

I think you only need to run the american racers for regional championship points, but I'm not completely sure. I think someone can go to one of those races and win and it still be considered a win for the weekend. In our region no one had enough finishes to even win the championship so its not important enough to make that type of rule change. I was just trying to stir the pot a bit, obviously its not a big enough issue or a rule would be put into place. I believe it would help my situation and could mean I do more races per year, but not everyone would agree and it could end up being just as expensive so why bother making that major change and hurt what we have now.

[jtgb]

Thanks, everyone for your feedback on the restrictor plate question - if for nothing else, I've developed a better appreciation of the technical, cultural, and political issues.

I was just saying that a total rule change needs to happen to be truly effective. Regions have used a spec tire before and it didn't last.

I tend to agree. I don't know for sure, but my region doesn't seem to even have another participating FV driver (at least at the regional level). Maybe a spec tire is something that could be implemented for regional series championship points, such as SARRC, MARRS, etc.? (ducking my head for cover)

[smsazzy]

The Northwest Region also uses the American Racer tire at the regional level. It too is in the supps. If you are not on that tire for qualifying, you start in the back. If you are not on that tire for the race, you are DQ'd - simple as that.

If you want to implement a rule change at the regional level, I am all for it. I would like to see National racing stay exactly what it is.

All you need to do is get a consensus from your local regulars and propose it as a supplemental reg for regional racing. The region can adopt it or not, but I think they'd be hard pressed to ignore a local majority if you have that.

If they want to see an example of it currently being used, see here:
http://www.sfrscca.org/images/2009/2009suppregs.pdf
Page 4, item 7

[CSatterley]

I'm interested to know why you would'nt like to see it at the national level but are okay with it at a regional level?
As far as the great lakes region goes we didn't have enough entrants by anyone to qualify for any championship at all which was only 5 entries for the year. We are in a situation where people do a lot of races outside their region which doesn't help attempting to make this change at a regional level. Thanks for the info on the spec tire rule out there. How does the tire perform?

[smsazzy]

The tire performance depends on who you ask. I personally don't like it. I feel it slides a LOT more than the Hoosier and doesn't inspire confidence. Some people seem to get within a second or two of the lap times of the Hoosiers. The disadvantage to the tire is that the tire is at its best for 3 or 4 cycles, then drops off by about a half second to a second. The good news is it seems to hold that level for another 10 or more heat cycles.

I am not for a spec tire on a national level, as I want the National racing to be more open to the highest performance possible. I think the tire battle of years past has given us a great tire in the Hoosier that seems to work well for many heat cycles and it a great performing tire on the track. In my opinion, if you are looking for a lower budget option (spec tire), then race at the regional level. That's not the official line, of course, but it is my own opinion.

[brian]

Talked with some SFR guys this weekend and learned that their spec Goodyear runs about 8 to nine cycles. They run 3 races, 3 qualies and 3 or more practice. Unlike their old spec tires, you don't need stickers for qualifying since the tire doesn't go off quickly. Their tire is harder than ours and was a challenge during our drizzily race this weekend. I get about the same life out of the rear Hoosiers and they're softer than the SFR Spec tire. I seem to get more life out of fronts now that the car is better balanced.

American Racers are up to $460 a set and Hoosiers are around $650. Prices are with tax and frieght. I honestly don't think the Racers last as long as Hoosier 55's.

[hardingfv32-1]

Did talking to the SRF guys help with the being punted off the track issues?

Brian

[Matt King]

It just dawned on me that in three pages, no one has answered the man's question. How rude. So here:

The blue color of the sky is due to Rayleigh scattering. As light moves through the atmosphere, most of the longer wavelengths pass straight through. Little of the red, orange and yellow light is affected by the air. However, much of the shorter wavelength light is absorbed by the gas molecules. The absorbed blue light is then radiated in different directions. It gets scattered all around the sky. Whichever direction you look, some of this scattered blue light reaches you. Since you see the blue light from everywhere overhead, the sky looks blue.

[jtgb]

Thanks, Matt. Too bad policing the class can't be that straight forward.

[brian]

Good question Brian. No not really. They claim not to see us anyway. I need to be more patient when passing them, my bad for being punted out of the lead. I"m thinking about running a dune buggy antenna whip with a day glow flag. I asked the SFR guy from Cal speedway if he saw me and he said no. I said" geez I'm surprised you didn't see me since I was along side you maybe even a bit ahead".

"You weren't along side me!" he exclaimed.

I said, if you didn't see me, how did you know I wasn't along side you?"

"If you were up that far I would have seen you," he answered.

oh well, the black tire donut on his right front wheel house not withstanding, we all need to be very careful with these groupings. The SFR guys are just as nurvous as we are. How'd you like to be the guy who squashed a vee.?

[Ed Womer]

Fortunatly here on the east the only time we are on track with the SRF is test days. But their claim they can't see us is pure BS since when you come up from behind them you can see their face in their mirror which means they can see you, they just choose not to or don't look in their mirrors. They also feel that they have no reason to worry about vee's since they can run us off the track and only get a mark on their car from the incounter. You might want to paint your top of roll hoop a bright color so it is easier for anyone to see you, but it still is unexcusable for SRF to whine about not seeing other cars because they don't bother to use their mirrors.

Ed

[hardingfv32-1]

I think it is a perception or peripheral vision issue. SRF drivers are use to a certain level of color or contrast in their mirror before they recognize that a car is if in fact visible in their mirrors. You could say that a FV is just not presenting enough info for a SRF driver to acknowledge. Some re-calibration is going to be required.

When I have tested with FA and CSR, I would never miss all the color of a CSR when they jumped me, but the FA was always a frightening surprise even though I knew they were prowling.

Brian