Budget racing

[jaymzz]

With the hard economic times that seem to not have a light at the end of the tunnel yet I thought I could start a thread for budget racing. I am new to this type of racing and don't have any knowledge about where are good places to buy tires, safety gear, etc. As I am getting my car ready for the first autocross I was reading a thread by snookwheel http://www.formulavee.org/interchange/v ... f=8&t=2179 that I think will be extremely helpful to any first time autocrossers. I think it should be a sticky in the solo section for all new people to read that have questions about there first time. I for one will be trying everything suggested in that thread. But after reading formula vee association thread it got me thinking that why not have a thread for the budget racers in mind on info on cheaper parts so we can afford to race. I have the ability to be able to make most of my own parts, but there is a lot of people that can't. So lets here some great ideas as to where we can all get good deals. I think this could really help some people out so they can race there cars.

[Matt King]

If you're looking for inexpensive safety gear, try G-Force or Racequip/Safequip, among many others. There is plenty of cheap racing gear on the market aimed mainly at the circle track market, but most of the gear is interchangeable for road racing. Get a Speedway Motors catalog if you don't have one.

[SR Racing]

Feel free to give us a call. We carry all the above brands, plus Simpson, Bell, Pyrotect and more. we also help to sponsor this board. We carry all the parts you would need for your FV, (or most any racing vehicles) Advice is free.

Visit us at http://sracing.com or http://RaceCarSupply.com

[kidkoh]

ok first I would never add safty equipment in with your plans for budget racing. you can buy a cheep helmet and fire suit but I would say get the best one that you can afford. you can get a lower cost suit and wear underware but remember, for now there is no experation on the suit so you can offset the cost of a good 3 layer one by taking good care of it for a long time. as for the helmet I am not sure on what required date you need for solo, I think that you can use a snell 2000 which you may be able to find cheeper but again you only get 1 brian so you may want to keep it safe.
as for cheep tires I would look to the people on this site. I look for spair parts wherever you can find them, craigslist and e-bay are great. I find soneone who has a junk beetle and I strip off all the parts that I need then I send the shell to the scrap yard. I spend many weekends sandblasting and painting but it does save some money on parts. I hope this helps and welcome to the bunch

[vreihen]

as for the helmet I am not sure on what required date you need for solo, I think that you can use a snell 2000 which you may be able to find cheeper but again you only get 1 brian so you may want to keep it safe.

In Solo, you can get away with a Snell M-spec (motorcycle) helmet, which can be purchased for half the price of a Snell SA-spec helmet. The downside is that very few sanctioning bodies will accept the M-spec helmet for track events (even in a fendered car), so you might as well drop the coin on an SA-spec helmet if you ever even think that you might wind up at a race track. As I say to everyone, a $20 helmet is for a $20 head.

The beautiful thing about Solo is that you don't need a fire suit, shoes, and most of the other safety equipment that club racers do. (As far as anyone can determine from the Solo rulebook, you don't even need harnesses with current expiration dates!) When you're ready to hit the track, you'll need all of this stuff, but for now you can run Solo events with more or less what you already have while you collect the necessary gear for racing when the time comes.....

[jaymzz]

Thanks for the comments. I wasn't just thinking about myself, but others as well. I quickly found that racing an open wheeled car is more expensive than I originally thought. So I thought there should be a thread on how to be able to race for a little bit cheaper. I agree with the safety equipment due to we only have one body. I see all over the place that formula vee is diminishing. IMO a lot of it has to do with the cost of running one. Right at this moment I have no hopes in being very competitive against other vee's due to the money issue's, and that is why I will be only autocrossing mine for now. Hopefully the economy will get better and next year I will be able to do track days. But if I could find all the stuff for cheaper to buy slowly over the year that would help me out. But I want others to benefit from a thread like this also. So I posted it to see where to get parts and such at a discount or just a little savings over just walking in a store and buying it. I hope I explained enough so everyone understands what I am trying to do with this thread.

[problemchild]

I had great luck buying used driver suits on Ebay. You will get best prices in the fall, but lots of ex-wives out there trying to dump there ex's leftovers. As with any Ebay purchase, you need to do some research and understand the market, but I bought 2, kept the best one, and covered my total cost with the non-Ebay sale of the 2nd.
Ebay is a buyer's market for the right things. Try buying a woman's (watersports) wetsuit for example .... hubbies buy for the wife .... wife tries it once .... 2 years later and $500 wetsuit on Ebay for $20.

Cheers!

[Matt King]

I see all over the place that formula vee is diminishing. IMO a lot of it has to do with the cost of running one. Right at this moment I have no hopes in being very competitive against other vee's due to the money issue's, and that is why I will be only autocrossing mine for now.

Road racing is expensive. Period. Most of the costs you are talking about are fixed regardless of the class you run in. The cost of safety gear to run a Vee is no different than GT-1. The cost of getting to the track, paying entry fees, lodging, food, etc. is pretty much a wash whether you run a Vee or an Atlantic. A Vee is about as cheap as wheel-to-wheel racing gets. Could it be cheaper? Sure, a little. You could run a longer lasting or cheaper tire. Some people have lobbied for a spec tire. Well, there's really nothing stopping you from running a spec-type tire now, since tires are open. You could save a couple bucks a gallon on gas if unleaded pump gas was usable, but in the grand scheme of things, fuel cost is not a major expense even at $5-6/gallon for leaded race fuel. Convenience would be a bigger factor IMO than cost with a switch to pump gas. I used to race a class where I spent $500-600 a year on front brake pads and spent $75-100 a weekend just on pump gas for the race car. You can race a whole season in a Vee on $50 in brake shoes. Amortizing engine rebuilds and other scheduled maintenance is probably the next biggest expense, and this is the only area where I see a Vee possibly not being the absolute cheapest class, only because the engines are somewhat high-strung and do require periodic rebuilds. I guess my point is that wheel to wheel racing is just plain more expensive than autocrossing or some other sports. How cheap do you think it should be?

[vreihen]

I guess my point is that wheel to wheel racing is just plain more expensive than autocrossing or some other sports. How cheap do you think it should be?

To run my national-prepped stock class car during the 2000 Solo season, it cost me $15.39 per minute of seat time...not including car payments or insurance. By comparison, my Vee has cost me $750/minute, but I only have 4 minutes of seat time on it so far. Considering that my stock class car would cord a set of tires in 6 weeks and every club member in these parts living on fixed income has either a vintage formula car or trailed Prepared car with 2-year-old tires on them, I'd say that my Vee will have a good return on investment as soon as we get a new autocross site to play on.....

[brian]

And they thought Elliot Spitzer was an idiot to pay thousands for a hooker! At your rate it's $45,000 an hour. Heck, even Paul McCartney didn't pay that much for his ex. I heard it his "fun" calc'd to $27,000 an hour. Seriously, a $1500 weekend, what I consider a well funded effort, figures out to $20 a minute for a 75 minute national weekend.

[vreihen]

And they thought Elliot Spitzer was an idiot to pay thousands for a hooker! At your rate it's $45,000 an hour.

That was money invested into a Vee that suddenly found itself without a place to play, thanks to our local club losing the only autocross site in the region where a Vee could actually run. If I had a chance to run it the full season instead of only 4 minutes, I'm sure the costs would be down around $10/minute.

Besides, nobody ever said that Solo gave you a lot of seat time for the money. Anyone who asks why those of us in NY (or CA) drive all the way to Kansas for 6 minutes of racing in the Solo National Championships already knows that us coneheads are insane.....

[jaymzz]

It's not a matter of how cheap I think it should be at all. I came from drag racing a newer car that besides the payment was relatively cheap to race besides always wanting to go faster. I don't want to start any problems at all with this thread. I was just thinking if there is a way to knock some of the prices down that maybe more people would get into it. That was all I was trying to do with this thread. I know there is nothing anyone can do to lower the entry fees and gas, but there is ways to save on tires, car parts, etc. Like someone stated watch here and e-bay for stuff. That is a great idea. I am new to the open wheeled racing, so I don't know what is cheaper to run or not to run. I am sure there is more people here that are in the same boat as me.

[jtgb]

Your question has a lot of merit. The idea of economical racing seems to draw an immediate “racing is expensive” response. Bass fishing is expensive too if you drop $50K on a topshelf Champion Elite to compete in national fishing tournaments. But, there's still plenty of fish to be had if you putter to the weeds in a garage-sale John boat and a WalMart trolling motor. The beer tastes just as good too.

Firstly, what is your goal? If you have dreams of winning the National runoffs, then forget about saving money – that level of racing is expensive.

If your goal is to learn the craft of racing, enjoy the sheer thrill of running wheel-to-wheel on some of the country's most prestigious tracks, and most importantly, if you're just as happy finishing a race, whether you're first, second, or last, then yes, there are ways you can have your cake and save enough money to buy a second piece.

Buy a few books and read them – “Going Faster” and “Speed Secrets” are two books (of several) I read cover-to-cover. SR Racing also offers a good book about FV setup that is well worth the purchase price. Knowledge is power.

Find a mentor – the more you can learn from those before you, the sooner you’ll reach your goals & make a lot less costly mistakes in the process. You’ll find that most FV veterans are more than willing to help bring us rookies into the fold; especially when we do stupid things at the track. A good arse chewing is worth a lot more than a pat on the back.

Find a partner in crime. My brother-in-law crewed for me last year, and as a result he caught the bug & I ended up crewing for him at Double Driver's School this past weekend at Roebling Road. (The only FV in attendance ) Our situation works out well, as I have an enclosed trailer & he has a RV. We welded together a set of wheel frames to stack the cars in the trailer & now we'll share the costs of travel. Camping in his RV will drastically cut down lodging expenses, and a trip to Super WalMart pretty much dulls the food costs.

No RV or enclosed trailer? That's OK, most tracks have shower facilities. Invest in a nice tent, cot, stove, and cooler and rough it at the track. If the weather is really nasty, there’s always the back seat of your tow vehicle. You'll save big $$$ staying clear of the hotels and restaurants. Plus, it’s hard to miss your early morning sessions if you’re already at the paddock.

Shop Around. You can get good safety gear and not go broke. There are huge pricing variances in suits and helmets, yet they're all required to meet the same safety standards. Most of the differences in price come down to basic marketing forces – style, weight, comfort, gadgets, and/or brand name. You need to protect yourself, but you don't need cool-suit compatible attire or a suit that weighs in at a mere 8oz. Most vendors also offer some form of discount if you buy a package deal, and there are always clearances of last year's fashion line.

Invest in some kind of video recording system. I have learned volumes about my driving (or lack thereof) by reviewing my sessions after the fact. You’ll also be able to share your videos with veteran drivers and get a wealth of feedback for making you faster sooner. Data acquisition will help even more, but I recommend getting the video first if you have to choose between the two.

Watch out for exiting drivers. Sadly, the class is in retraction, but that does offer some good deals for buying out the cars/spares of those that have moved on to other endeavors. I bought two cars with a treasure of goodies for less than the price of one Spec Miata. Just the motors are worth more than than the entire outfit.

Many competitive drivers change out their tires well before they’re worn, so there are used FV tires to be had for test days if nothing else. Check with the on-track tire dealers and scour through their throw-aways. Yea, they might not stick as well as new tires, but consider it an opportunity to learn how to be smooth. If meet up with a national driver, offer to pay to have his new tires mounted in exchange for his (good) 2nd's.

Speaking of test days. Most tracks host a test day the Friday before the race weekend ranging between $150 - $250 for about 2 hours of track time. Outside of driver school, you won't get a better value for building seat time, not to mention the latitude of trying different setups or running different lines. The drawback, though, is that you'll run with the big boys - it's hard to describe the feeling the first time a gaggle of FA's, FM's, or DSR's whip by you at the speed of sound. The flipside, though, it has helped me hone my track awareness skills & it makes racing with FF's, SRF's, or F5's seem like child's play in comparison.

Your Novice Permit affords you two years to finish two races - there's no hurry to actually race. If you're new to the car, track, or racing, and don't have the money for both test day and the race, start off with the test day and crew/shadow a veteran driver for the actual race. A typical regional race will get you one 20-minute or two 10/15-minute qualifying sessions followed by one 30-minute (maximum) race. It's over & done before you figured out the correct line. The test day usually affords you four to six 20-minute sessions to go out, come back and tinker, and go back out again. That's a huge learning advantage when you're just starting out.

[brian]

Great post JT. It all applies and I always tell folks to try to do as most of the work as possible. Don't buy anything that does not contribute to quality track time. That means motorhomes, computers, enclosed trailers and pit tootsies.

[jaymzz]

Excellent post! Thank you.

[problemchild]

I always advise newbies to spend there money on transferable components. Engine, wheels, tires, shocks, trannies are all things that you can bring to your next car .... or keep if your current car warrants keeping. Spend minimal money on bodywork, chassiswork, or unique parts for your starter car because you likely will never recover any of it.
Putting $500 into an intake manifold would be preferable to putting the $500 into a paint job, IMO.

[FV49]

I agree with Brian, this is an amazing post JT! Looks like you wrote the book I should have read when I first started out.

The only thing you didn't mention that I thought should be given some consideration is renting a ride for the first couple times prior to purchasing a car. My initial and longer term expenditures and thus my headaches/frustration factors were greatly reduced by following this advice of a veteran Vee guy. Best thing I ever did! I continue to reap the benefits to this day. And today there are some really good outfits renting Vees too!

In hind sight, renting served several important issues that I had not even considered up until that point. One, the circle of piers it had introduced me to was invaluable, what a resource. As a renter everyone spoke to me differently than if I had already purchased a car. (not to be mistaken for pity, lol!) Here's a guy that might be "passing through", they thought, the sell was on! I have seen this scenerio unfold similarly many times since. Two, as an arrive and drive, it allowed me the time to walk around the paddock and see and talk to the other guys, their set ups (there are some really creative guys that run Vee - home made lifts, spares set ups), garner advice, hear about their mistakes "when I started out". Three, to rent a "sorted" car complete with proven set up and actually watch/help the guys work on it and ask a zillion questions(they had to answer LOL - I was a paying Customer! ) was invaluable in the learning curve, not to mention the coaching. (The fact that "those guys" still help me to this day is a major spin off benefit too! ) It seems like the rental is expensive at face value but it really does come back to you in spades later on.

[jtgb]

The only thing you didn't mention that I thought should be given some consideration is renting a ride for the first couple times prior to purchasing a car. My initial and longer term expenditures and thus my headaches/frustration factors were greatly reduced by following this advice of a veteran Vee guy. Best thing I ever did! I continue to reap the benefits to this day. And today there are some really good outfits renting Vees too!

Excellent Point - I was lucky enough to know a veteran FV racer while I was still doing the performance driving thing. I expressed my interest in racing & FV, and a few months later he caught wind of a car for sale for which he knew the history. He then guided me through the preparation process and introduced me to the original fabricator. A few months later the car was on the track.

Jaymzz, you mentioned wanting to migrate over from Solo to racing? I'm no expert, but you won't be able to race your car in the current FV class - duel carbs are definitely off the table. I'm not sure what the Vintage classes allow... Long term you may be looking at flipping your existing car for a race-prepared Vee.

To Brian's point - part of the fun of owning a FV is doing as much of your own work as possible. It sounds like Jaymzz has that one covered.

[jaymzz]

After looking at the rules for formula vee and people telling me about it here I agree that it will be better to buy a different car to track. So I think I will run the car I have for a couple of years sell it and buy a better one.

[caracal76]

For VW sedan-based parts check your area for the nearest Volkswagen show. Most have huge swap meets where you can find all kinds of used but good parts for cheap (and, no, my Atlanta steering box wasn't a used part. Go figure.).