FV frame design

[hardingfv32-1]

Brian McCarthy wrote about NHRA FC chassis: "The most amazing thing about the whole deal is how flimsy the chassis is in the first place. With thousands of hp available I really don't see why the cars have to be so light."

I would say this would be a typical response from a long time FV chassis builder (Brian has always built highly successful cars). From the start Vees have always a had heavy overbuilt chassis. I know it is cheap and simple to build them this way, but after 45 years you would think the chassis would have improved a little.

Brian

[brian]

Hey Brian, thanks for the compliment but I don't really think a highly sophisticated frame will do us any good. Other than the challenges of making minimum weight, I see no reason for high tech materials and designs. The funny cars are breaking up because the flimsy chassis is being overwhelmed by HP and tire shake. I don't recall having either issue in my vee. Well, not yet anyway.

Happy new year everyone.

[kwillmorth79]

Do you really want to get into the war between BME (the normalizer) and McKinney (the heat treater), and the soap opera the NHRA has been for decades? Just like FV cars, very little FEA work has been done on those cars, with the majority of designs evolving from garage floor look-see engineering. The fact that an FC chassis weighs less than an FV car, yet witshtands upwards of 600 times the HP, and at least 1,000 times the tractive grip, says a lot. The fact is the debate and issues at the very top ranks of the sport mask that there are hundreds of cars running that chassis design with no incidents at all, every weekend of the season - from alcohol ranks to fuel ranks, and a few running unblown nitro to boot. In the alcohol and sportsman ranks, the use of old TF chassis is common, some as old as a decade or more. Personally if I had to choose which car to hit a guardrail in at over 200 mph, I'll take the FC car over an FV... no matter who put it together, no offense to anyone here!

[brian]

Very true Kevin, I don't ever recall seeing a vee break in half and the drivers legs hanging out. A simple increase in minimum weight in NHRA could solve many of their problems but the mentality is very different over there. Why else would someone breath all that fuel and asbestos? Ever see how black their faces are after a run? (No offense Todd) I've had two drag racing friends develop asbestoses and die.

[DanRemmers]

Do the NHRA rules change or evolve like the SCCA rules? That is, do they rely on the experiences of the drivers and car builders to dictate the rule changes?

If drivers started getting seriously injured in any given SCCA class, the cause would be found (or at least theorized), and the rules would change to mitigate the problem.

Perhaps there haven't been enough serious injuries in NHRA or Funny Cars to make the competitors care about the potential problem.
Or the percieved risk is worth the extra winnings that a dangerous chassis may generate.

That's what I love about amateur racing--not enough money to really screw things up.

[hardingfv32-1]

Definitely no asbestos in the current clutch. Carbon fiber, metallic, and/or ceramic. Crewman take no safety precautions when servicing clutch discs. Face masks are now very common when running the engine in the pits. I have never heard of a long term negative effect from the combustion fumes. It is an important part of the pit experience when at a race. It would be sad to think everyone is run over when they hear a car fire up and getting a big dose of poison. I doubt if it would stop then, this is NHRA Fuel racing!

I think Ford is know doing the FEA analysis work on Forces FC cars. On the surface not that much has change in the frame design.

All sanction bodies are responders when it comes to safety. When the PR is bad or the competitors worried enough, then things get done.

Amateur racing doesn't need greene to screw things up, it has by definition has amateurs running the operation.

Brian

[Captain]

I thought I saw a post with someones solid model at one point. Thats the most time consuming part. There must be some info of crash forces out there.

Jim
(does FEA for a living, project depending)

[hardingfv32-1]

NHRA just made a Ford Accident Data Recorder mandatory for 2009. Nothing happens with out a little trouble first no matter what the organization.

Brian

[kwillmorth79]

Very true Kevin, I don't ever recall seeing a vee break in half and the drivers legs hanging out. A simple increase in minimum weight in NHRA could solve many of their problems but the mentality is very different over there. Why else would someone breath all that fuel and asbestos? Ever see how black their faces are after a run? (No offense Todd) I've had two drag racing friends develop asbestoses and die.

Missed the point. Crash an FV car into a guardrail at 250mph, and the driver will simply be dead, his/her legs hanging out will not be a factor. My point is that regardless of all the noise and saber rattling between the two F/C chassis shops (which has gone on for years now), the cars have done amazingly well under some seriously insane forces. The NHRA rules evolution is no different than the SCCA, in that politics plays as much a role as any nother factor. That seems to be the rule of racing - from the top to the very bottom.