Front Suspension Beam Needle,Roller Bearings

[RickyBobby]

I'm in need of help from any of you VW guru's out there. How do you remove the needle/roller bearings from the front suspension beam? I'm rebuilding it and need to remove the bearings before I have the beam powder coated. Is there a special bearing puller?

[Dietmar]

Yes, there is a special puller (which most do not have), so it is time to be creative.

If you do NOT plan to reuse the bearings, driving them out from the opposite end is easy. If you plan to reuse them, here is what I suggest. Get a flat piece of rectangular steel the size of the o.d. of the bearing and at least 1/2" thick. You will have to drill an oblong hole in the center for a bolt that is 1/4" by 3'" long works fine. A 1/2 in. hole in the center should be big enough .Your flat piece will have to be rounded to match the curve of the bearing, but also be narrow enough to go through the hole when you lay it flat ( with the bolt head in the hole behind the flat metal and the threaded end sticking out towards you). In other words, the length of the metal is the OD of the bearing, the width of the metal is the ID of the bearing. Two people doing this works best, but I have done it alone. Slide the metal "driver" inside the bearing bore.One now pulls on the bolt making the flat metal meet the OD of the bearing ( inside) and the other person takes a 3/4 OD pipe from the other end and hits it a couple of times with a good sized hammer. Keep your "driver" flush against the bearing otherwise you will crush the lip and the bearing is junk. Works every time!

Now, be sure to remind the powder coater that there is a bakelite bushing inside the tube and if he gets it too hot, it will turn the bushing to powder!

Hope this helps.
If you need more details, call me. Number is at the top.
Dietmar

[RickyBobby]

Your reply is most helpful, and I sincerely thank you. I will not be re-using the bearings. What do you suggest I use to "push" the bearings out? Also, would you suggest that I re-install new needle/roller bearings (who can I buy these from?), or is there a better alternative? If I get stuck, I'll take you up on your offer and give you a call.

Bob

[hardingfv32-1]

The needle bearings and bushings can both be pushed/hammered out from the opposite side. Similar to what Dietmar recommended, I take/make a disc/washer that matches the OD of the bearings and grind two flats on it so it can be inserted into the beam behind the bearings. Use a log 3/4" rod to hammer on this washer and push the bearings out. All the bearings will be reusable, although the inner bushings often show a lot of wear and should be replaced with good pieces. I have never seen a bad needle bearing, unless rust is involved.

Brian

[lbaconll]

I thought that there was a procedure to in fact have inner and outer needle bearings?

[lbaconll]

I thought that there was a procedure to in fact have inner and outer needle bearings?

[Dietmar]

Bob:

If you are not concerned with the bearings, then an old sway bar or even a leaf from an old set of springs will work- anything to get through the center square and on to the bearing. BUT- notice that BUT is in caps- I know of no one that sells new bearings. I have used ones, but ( small but) why pay for something that you already have. As someone said, the bearings rarely go bad unless someone had sand in the tube or never greased them ( which could be the case). It is your choice.

And for Larry: I personally have never seen bearings inside and outside. Does not mean it does not exist, but I have never seen one.

Dietmar

[hardingfv32-1]

Larry

The ID of the "needle bearing style" beam tubes is machined just on the ends to accept the needle bears. The inner bushings match the tubing ID with no machining. You would have to bore the tube in about 6'' to make the needle bearings fit and would need a decent inner bearing race on the control arm.

Brian

[RickyBobby]

Dietmar,

Your suggested "home-made" tool worked like a charm. Your advice was both timely and spot on. My sincere thanks. You mentioned that there was a phenolic or bakelite bushing in the beam that could be destroyed by high heat during the powdercoat procedure. How hot would "too hot" be to cause the breakdown of this material? Would it be safer to just paint it?

Unfortunately I destroyed one of of the needle bearings trying to get it out before learning of your fix. If anyone out there knows how to procure new bearings for a "needle bearing beam" I would be much beholden.

Bob

[Dietmar]

Bob:

Always glad when things wok out.

Since I prefer not to powdercoat front beams, I honestly can not tell you what the max temp would be- just that some cars have come through here with inner bushings that flaked apart after the owners had their beams powdercoated. I believe if you point out to the powder coating facilitiy that there is such an animal inside the beam, they can be a bit more careful with heat- or so I am told.

Again, I do have used bearing here if you are interested.
Dietmar

[hardingfv32-1]

The bushings should come out. At a minimum, it will be worn on one side and should be rotated 180 degs. There are one sided loads exerted on the bearings by the control arms which ALWAYS causes wear on one side only. Powder coating melts at a fixed temp, so not that much tolerance if you want the finish done properly.

Brian

[RickyBobby]

OK, Brian, I'm game. How do you remove the inner bushings safely?

Bob

[FV80]

OK, Brian, I'm game. How do you remove the inner bushings safely?

Bob

I haven't done it, but I'm sure you could remove them using a similar piece to that used to remove the bearings - maybe even the SAME tool - except you'll need a MUCH LONGER rod to put it into place. Slip the tool through (just like for the bearing) and pound lightly from the other side. They are 'peened' into place by 2 dimples in the beam. I'm pretty sure those dimples were put there by VW BEFORE the bushings were installed. About one shot with a hammer should get them out (they should slide easily out after that). Getting them back in will be a bit trickier. Slide in to the dimple, then pound them "the right amount" to get *JUST* past the dimple with 1/2 the bushing .. and no more. If you hit it too hard, it'll go through and you'll have to use the tool to get it back to the right spot. If it isn't held in place properly by the dimples and goes in too far, you'll have NO BUSHING on the end of the turkey leg and .... well, you WON'T like the way it handles .
Steve

[hardingfv32-1]

Steve is right, you could adapt the tools you have. You need to get something behind the bearing. I use a large washer with two flats on it to clear the ID of the bushing. Glue it to the top of a large flat screwdriver with some grease. Slide the washer behind the bearing and then stand it up or position it flat against the back of the bushing/bearing. This takes a little patience using the long shaft/rod you are going to use to push with. Steve is correct, you want to be gentle, the bearing is Bakelite/phenolic and will chip if treated too roughly. Make sure the push rod is against the washer and bearing before striking. I am not aware of any dimples that locate these bushings.

Brian

[brian]

If all fails you can purchase delron bushing from any off road supplier. They're a bit tight but can be fitted and will last forever.

Next time someone writes off a h-beam get the needles out before throwing it away. Unless the hbeam is torn or really crushed, many can be straightened on a press. Especially the aftermarket ones.

[RickyBobby]

Brian,

Thanks for your comments and help. In your opinion, should I remove the inner bushings prior to powdercoat? I believe that powdercoat oven temperatures reach around 300 degrees F.

Bob

[hardingfv32-1]

Phenolic would not be bothered by 300 deg, IF we knew for sure the bushings were Bakelite/phenolic. Since the bushings are 40-50 years old we have to respect Dietmar's warning. I would never powder coat the beam, bad karma. That is just asking for an front end collision to happen.

Brian

[BobShedd]

I have powder coated many beams for myself and customers. I have never been able to sucessfully remove the inner bushings so I just let the guys powder coat away. When they are done the bushings will usually just fall right out with very little effort on my part, then install new ( or good used ) inner bushings, good rollers, and you are ready to assemble. In trying to remove the inner bushings I usually damage them so I decided if I was going to damage them why spend my time, let the heat do the work. I understand powder coating takes about 400degress for about 30 minutes.
Bob