january florida national

[fv31]

ok......maybe i've finally reached the point where i need glasses. i hope i read this wrong but know i didn't.

florida january national at west palm. one race, 400 bucks. the double is 700.

comment and vent.

bill
fv31

[FV80]

I've been waiting for that 'shoe drop'. After the entry for Homestead last year, I'm not really surprised.
New track and all... guess they've got to pay for it somehow.
Talk about killing the goose ...
Steve

[fv31]

general consensus, from those i've talked to seems to run from disgust to shock. with present economic conditions, a long tow, waning national fields, and an entry fee bordering on the GNP of some third world countries, one could reasonably expect an overall field for all classes combined of between three and nine cars.

bill
fv31

[FV80]

Well - *I'M* certainly NOT making the trip!

[brian]

I attempted to approach my region about reconsidering entry fees and was shouted down. We've made our weeekends so expensive that the breakeven point requires very high entry fees. The BOD, in the quest of total safety, has placed very high requirements on the regions which are expensive. The total safety attempts include liabilty and insurance issues as well. I'm not saying we have to get dangerous, but some rational thought is needed. My region has a fleet of vehicles that we have bought and some think it may be a bit excessive.

On the other issue of track rentals, some tracks, expecially those with a Nascar date, just aren't motivated about cutting fees to renters. They've made their "nut" on the Nascar weekend and the rest is gravy.

[lbaconll]

Brian hits excellent points. At least here in San Francisco Region, there seems to be a "there will always be more people to play" attitude. Well, SCCA is not the only sanctioning group out there. NASA has made small forays into Formula Car Racing. As more and more private "Country Club" tracks and clubs appear, it will probably get worse. Here, we have Thunderhill Raceway Park, that is owned and operated by SF Region Propertys Inc. As you might expect, the entry fees are lower here than at Sears Point or Laguna Seca. But since we are a "super region" it was probably easier for us to accomplish the task than it would be for a smaller region. Like the gasoline prices of this summer, dont buy< the price goes down. But be prepared for the tracks to call the bluff. Like Sears and Laguna, they really dont need our Club weekends to make their nut.
Seems to me that making Club Race weekends "paying" spectator weekends could help defray the costs. I know, insurance etc. June sprints, do they show a + balance for that region after the weekend?
Here in San Francisco Region we have 1 National event. Low entrys have been blamed. Well, if you have more events, you may have more entrys! Just a thought.
L Bacon

[FV80]

Here in San Francisco Region we have 1 National event. Low entrys have been blamed. Well, if you have more events, you may have more entrys! Just a thought.
L Bacon

Trust me on this...
It is the TOTAL NATIONAL EVENTS per *DIVISION* that has the biggest impact. If you have 25 National 'in Division' races (yes - unrealistic), you can't expect ALL of the racers to attend every race. If you have FOUR National races 'in Division', then you *CAN* expect a lot higher participation from the majority division racers. Somewhere in between those 2 is where you want your division to end up. With the prolifery (at least here in SEDIV) of racetracks in the last few years, we have seen attendance falling off at *ALL* events - even the double nationals. Why should some one tow 800 - 1000 miles to reach a double (supposedly cheaper) when there are 3 tracks withing 300 miles that all host events. Add to that, the INCREDIBLY HIGH registration fees for these doubles (it appears that the regions are planning to TAKE most of that money that the racers are supposedly saving), and ... guess what you have??

LOW ATTENDANCE AT ALL NATIONAL RACES... GO FIGGER!!?? .
Steve

[lbaconll]

Steve, how many of those new tracks provide National Events in your division?

Also, Do you know what happened to Greg Bruns?

[FV80]

Steve, how many of those new tracks provide National Events in your division?

Also, Do you know what happened to Greg Bruns?

Almost ALL of them. Neither Nashville nor Barber (yet) offer a National, but we still have TWELVE Nationals scheduled at SEVEN different tracks in SEDIV. Even though National has 'upped the ante' to allow counting seven races, there are still quite a number more than anyone could reasonably be expected (to be able to afford) to attend.

Way back when .. when I started racing, we had SEVEN races in division and could count 6. Pretty much everyone who planned on possibly making the Runoffs had to plan to attend all 7. Nowadays, you can attend FOUR, get qualified and go to the Runoffs (Of course, the Runoffs were IN MY DIVISION back then .)

Greg Bruns has given up racing in favor of building and flying AIRPLANES these days. He's built (and flown) at least 2 experimental planes and, so far, hasn't killed himself or anyone else that I know of .

He *IS*, I think, involved in some sort of new racing endeavor -- designing and building YET ANOTHER car that won't fit into any existing class ... maybe. It *MIGHT* fall into FB, but I'm not sure - he didn't respond to my query about it.
Steve

[hardingfv32-1]

Clearly the business model that the Regions use needs to be modified for the next season or two. The National program was trending downward before the current economy and nothing has been developed to change that. Fewer scheduled events would seem one way to keep event entries up, but I do not think this is going to happen. I imagine there is a fear of losing dates with the tracks if you do not claim your quota. That being the case, then the entry fees will have to go up to make up for the fewer entries. Kind of a financial death spiral. This crisis is permeating almost every part of our lives. Just amazing.......

Brian

[f clark]

Be careful what you wish for, 3 years ago, at the request of 3 S.E. division RE'S I created a WORKSHEET, it was only a WORKSHEET for the restructureing of the racing schudle here in the SE. I presented to the RE'S, division and BOD members at the Mid Year meeting in Atlanta in July of that year.
PLEASE remember this was only a suggestion for future consideration and nothing else. By the meeting in Jan. where everything is finally decided I was nearly LYNCHED. In short the greedy regions personal did not want to loose there nest egg, reguardless of the concequences, so what was the result to date, dwendling fields ,low worker counts and even more races have been put on this years list! Don't blame Topeka this is a REGION ISSUE, regions set the event schudle.
There are more races down here than you can belive, no way can anyone expect any numbers at these events, not to mention the poor worker pool, remember,NO WORKERS, NO RACES! I just wonder how many will end up being canceled.
I know how much it costs Florida region to rent the New PBIR, the number is stagering, not to mention worker gratuities, it will be intresting to see the turn out. Not to mention how many will stay down and go to Sebring the next week.
Fred Clark

[brian]

Fred hit the nail on the head, some regions run one or two events a year for their own "nest eggs". We have this same issue in the West. The Seattle double, their only national, is going to cost over $600. While they run a few regionals, I would guess that the double fills their coffers quite well.
Down South, there is a territorial battle between Cal CLub and Ariz. region. Both are scheduling doubles that overlap one another and are designed to lure drivers away from the other region. Last year, the Cal Club RE sent out an email promoting their races and touting the reduction in travel would reduce costs.

Until the Drivers unite politically and speak with a voice that's at least as loud as the other interests, we'll be ignored.

Don't look to the CRB for help either. Last year I worte and asked that they not decrease the minimum times required for national weekends. Not only did they ignor my pleas, they changed the requirement to allow combining practices to cover minimums on double weekendsand said in the most recent FASTRAC, that this was an issue to take up with local regions. They have the authority to alter the GCR race rules but not the authority to field challenges to the decision. The CRB said the same thing about class combinations. Must be nice.

[fv22]

There's only 1 thing they will understand. NOBODY GO TO THE $700 NATIONAL. Not only in FV but in all classes, if the drivers unite and just say no I'm sure the regions will get the message. If people complain and go anyway it will be $750 next year and who knows how much after that. Unless you really do something drastic it will only get worse.

I only run regionals but can see where they will raise those entry fees also as soon as they see people still come no matter what they charge. If the regions lower the number of scheduled races to get better attendance at the ones they do have more people will come out for each race and they will be more profitable. If enough people go to a $700 race for the region to make money they have no reason to reduce the price. Let them schedule an event and have nobody show up and it will catch their attention in a hurry. I'm sure the RE's will realize they have to look at the business model, they may even decide that some driver input is required.

Just my .02
Bob
FV22

[jgaither]

SCCA is not the only game in town. It is driving people away with tactics like this.

[FV80]

...they may even decide that some driver input is required.

Just my .02
Bob
FV22

Say ... WHAT ??? You MUST be joking ...

[fv31]

i can only speak for myself.....but there are many reasons i haven't raced much in the last two seasons. the biggest were a move/new job. the escalation in fuel prices really cut into the towing budget for sure.....i took a long, hard look at what it would cost to just get to a race. this was a big factor for a while. this has mitigated quite a bit, and as i plan to ramp back up the number of races i'm gonna run..... now i have to consider entry fees.

i understand that top drawer tracks like west palm/VIR/barber will cost more for the region to rent. granted, they are great tracks and quite challenging. but at some point, we have to remember why we (club racers) are there. i've said many times....we're a bunch of old men (relatively speaking.....and in some cases women too! sorry christine. lol). none of us are going to F1, Indy Cars, or Nascar. we're there because we like doing it and we enjoy company of the people.

yeah, we all wanna run these great circuits, but do we have to run them all the time? personally, i love savannah, and it's a relative bargain for the regions to rent as far as i know. there are other, more cost effective options. one that comes to mind is rockingham. from what i've heard, they give track rental at rockingham as a prize in a cereal box. i don't know about nashville, but i'd be willing to bet it's quite cost effective....and a better road course than you'd expect. i hate kershaw but it has to be cheaper than the "premier" (read EXPENSIVE) tracks. over the last thirty years (not all scca), i remember a lot of really great times at a lot of not so great tracks. in the end, the track counted much less than who i ran against and the company i kept.

perhaps considering fewer races overall and at cheaper tracks is an option we should look at. if we want to get decent fields, especially in today's economic climate, we need to make racing more cost effective. if we can cut several hundred dollars off of a weekend, our chances of getting more cars would seem to be better.

granted, some of these tracks are not the same as a VIR/Barber style circuit, but would you rather race in a field of three cars at a great venue, or a field of ten or fifteen at a track that's not so "top drawer"? perhaps cutting back the number of races at the premier tracks.....not eliminating them all together.............just cutting back....

bill
fv31

[fv22]

by FV80 on Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:34 pm

fv22 wrote:
...they may even decide that some driver input is required.

Just my .02
Bob
FV22
Say ... WHAT ??? You MUST be joking ...

This discussion is much too depressing, glad I made you laugh
Seriously though last year I decided to go to Sebring instead of Barber at the last minute partly because the entry fee was half the price for the same amount of track time. It was actually about 25% of the price of the upcoming national!