Help me identify this vee

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JasonMiller
Posts: 7
Joined: April 5th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Help me identify this vee

Post by JasonMiller »

OK firstly, I am new here, my name is Jason and I am addicted to cars....

I just picked up this basket case Formula Vee, from what I can gather its sat in boxes for 20 plus years and unfortunately a good many parts are lost.

I was told today it was a vintage Zeitler possibly.

Anyway, any help is appreciated and I can post close ups of any part of the car.

Cheers
Jason
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Rickydel
Posts: 199
Joined: July 5th, 2006, 11:09 am

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by Rickydel »

Jason, your car is not a Zeitler.
I do not recognize it as any production built FV, but it is definitely not a Zeitler.
Sorry, that's all I can tell you other than it looks to be the widest FV I have ever seen. :shock:

Good luck with it.
WNYVeeRacer
Posts: 20
Joined: June 5th, 2007, 7:42 am

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by WNYVeeRacer »

Looks like the bodywork is homemade............ But the Frame may be a Zink C4 based on the multi tube frame, Rollbar construction, attachment of the trailing arms and especially the look of the trapezoid rear subframe laying on the ground in the foreground of pic #1...
Rickydel
Posts: 199
Joined: July 5th, 2006, 11:09 am

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by Rickydel »

I did not notice the trapezoidal bulkhead in the bottom of the picture.
That could be a Zink frame. If it is, it is heavily modified, with many tubes cut out and others welded in.
I also made the assumption that transaxle was in the vee, and those stock shock mounts wouldn't work on a Zink. I now think that axle was never used on that car.
More pics would help.
The windscreen sure looks like Zink C-4 fiberglass.
JasonMiller
Posts: 7
Joined: April 5th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by JasonMiller »

Thank you guys for the input, I will upload some better pics as I have spent the last few weeks trying to piece this thing together, I am not sure how the motor mounts to the frame as well as its obviously missing the coil overs or the parts that the shocks mount too... Fun little car though and I love bringing things back to life.
Dietmar
Site Admin
Posts: 628
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 11:56 am

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by Dietmar »

Jason:

The engine bolts to the trans and slides in as one unit. The shocks ( yes, you need coil overs) attack to one of the through bolt holes on the trapezoid. There should also be a plate that bolts to the trapezoid and the TOP of the engine case.
Hope this helps

Dietmar
www.quixoteracing.com
JasonMiller
Posts: 7
Joined: April 5th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by JasonMiller »

Thank you Dietmar

OK Here are some new pics, I did the bodywork myself and and put as much as the car together as I can.

Its apparent that I am missing parts from the rear of the car, I am not sure what the piece should look like that mounts the shocks and the metal bar piece. Can someone post a close up diagram or even a drawing of that I will need to locate or more than likely build from scratch?

Also I realize the motor ( or more the tranaxle) mounts to the trapezoid and the trapezoid mounts to the frame but is that all? The motor just balances there from the Trapezoid? Also I am missing the mounting piece that connects the transaxle to the trapezoid, does anyone have a picture of that?

Lastly I would like to buy a used set of slotted rims and slicks and I need a seat as well if anyone knows of any parts for sale, I live in Colorado but will gladly pay for shipping.

Thanks for all the input!!

Cheers
Jason
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JasonMiller
Posts: 7
Joined: April 5th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by JasonMiller »

Forgot to ask, Its obviously missing some rear body work as well, any idea what that is supposed to look like?

thanks
Rickydel
Posts: 199
Joined: July 5th, 2006, 11:09 am

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by Rickydel »

Jason,
The bodywork looks great!
If you post more pics with the bodywork off the car, we can help you out some more.
I am thinking what you have is a modified Zink, or a copy of one, with home made fiberglass.

The rear bulkhead, known as a trapezoid, is very Zinky. There are two engine/tranny mounts that bolt to the trapezoid.
The one on top goes from those two holes near the middle of the trap, to the top two bolts that hold the engine and tranny together.
The bottom mount is very much like a stock VW engine mount, but is all a steel weldment. There should be two holes in the bottom horizontal of the trap as well.

The rear suspension? That is a puzzle for you to figure out, but I'll try to help. For the original, "traditional" two shock, Z-bar suspension, the coil over shocks were mounted to the top of the trap through the holes outside of the bolts that mount the trap to the frame on top, but, the trailing arms you have on the car are for what is called a "Zero Roll Resistance" rear suspension. Most refer to it as a "Zero Roll" setup which, without the word resistance, makes it a misnomer. I happen to have a complete rear suspension setup I'd be happy to sell to you for cheap + shipping. It hasn't been used in years and will need some cleanup, but it's all there.

Regarding the rear bodywork, I have those panels too, but they are original Zink body pieces, which are of a rounded design, unlike the squarish pieces you have already. They might look OK. This link will show you what Zink bodywork looks like. http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z11827/Zink-C4.aspx
#28 shows the rear with the tail and the engine cover style that I have. #43 was my car. That pic shows the windscreen that is very much like yours, and what I believe the builder/modifier of your car started out with.

Like I said at the beginning, lots of pics of the car without body panels will help us help you.

Good luck.

Ricky del
FV80
Site Admin
Posts: 1157
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by FV80 »

Jason,
If I'm not mistaken, you have the wheels mounted BACKWARDS to the hubs. The part that you have against the drums are the OUTSIDES of the wheels.

You can see some pictures of how the original formcars were built at
http://formcarregistry.com/Assembly%20Manual%2063.htm
That might give you some insight as to how these things were assembled.

You've made good progress since the "box o parts" arrived. Good luck as you go forward.
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please send me an email or PM with your name, location (city/state), make/model of car, phone # and any other appropriate info.
BLS
Posts: 407
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by BLS »

Jason,

A picture showing the original Zink trapezoid. The coil overs mount to the outer holes. Inside of these are two mounts for the original Z bar, not mounted in this picture. Your car does not have these, and appears to have a different suspension design due to the links shown, most likely a "zero roll".

Might be a modified Zink, but I'm guessing it might be a copy.

Barry

Image
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
JasonMiller
Posts: 7
Joined: April 5th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by JasonMiller »

FV80 wrote:Jason,
If I'm not mistaken, you have the wheels mounted BACKWARDS to the hubs. The part that you have against the drums are the OUTSIDES of the wheels.

You can see some pictures of how the original formcars were built at
http://formcarregistry.com/Assembly%20Manual%2063.htm
That might give you some insight as to how these things were assembled.

You've made good progress since the "box o parts" arrived. Good luck as you go forward.
Steve, FV80

Yes the wheels are just some junk wheels I had from an old kit car, I just threw them on so I can roll it around,
Thank you for the link! That sheds some light on how things should be assembled...

Its coming along since it first showed up, and I think everyone for their input and the PM's Looks as if I am going to be able to purchase some bodywork and a rear suspension parts!
JasonMiller
Posts: 7
Joined: April 5th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by JasonMiller »

BLS wrote:Jason,

A picture showing the original Zink trapezoid. The coil overs mount to the outer holes. Inside of these are two mounts for the original Z bar, not mounted in this picture. Your car does not have these, and appears to have a different suspension design due to the links shown, most likely a "zero roll".

Might be a modified Zink, but I'm guessing it might be a copy.

Barry

Image

Thank you Barry for the pic, that helps greatly,
BLS
Posts: 407
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by BLS »

I found a picture in my files of a modified Zink with a zero roll rear. I'm guessing this is what yours looked like, or similar. This was a car someone was setting up for autocross.

Also, forgot to mention, there are two parts that actually hold the tranny/engine to the trapezoid. At the bottom, there was a bracket that bolted to the trapezoid and had the mounting pads for the tranny. At the top, there is a bracket that bolts the top of the engine/tranny to the trapezoid. Without those pieces you have a problem. You will either have to locate them or fabricate them. I don't know if anyone has drawings of these parts.

Zero roll Zink pic:

Image
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
JasonMiller
Posts: 7
Joined: April 5th, 2016, 3:45 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by JasonMiller »

Update, I found a set of tires and wheels for the car, thanks for the PM's/

Looking at the last pic makes me think my set us was zero roll, maybe the rear end (with the yellow shocks) were never on this car to begin with...

I love a mystery!
BLS
Posts: 407
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Re: Help me identify this vee

Post by BLS »

maybe the rear end (with the yellow shocks) were never on this car to begin with...
That would be my guess. The shocks are mounted to the original VW mounts and that is typically cut/ground off. That tranny might not even have the ring gear reversed...

You car has the links attached to the trailing arms that would go to the zero roll shock setup.
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
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