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Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 7th, 2011, 10:44 pm
by gcurl
Hello all,
My name is George and I recently acquired a Zink C4 that I intend to prepare for vintage FV racing. I'm currently in what the DoD calls "an undisclosed location in the middle east" so most of the work is currently being accomplished by my father. I'll be here for a while so all I have at the moment are the pictures he sends and trying to learn all I can about FV racing. I'm pretty familiar with the water-cooled side of VW, but the air-cooled is a new experience. The folks in CVAR have been pretty helpful so far giving suggestions and tips to help me along. Fortunately several of my other projects have started off in much worse shape so I'm confident I'll be able to sort this one out eventually.

On to the pictures.

Dad and my son looking over the new project on it's way to it's new home.
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On the trailer.
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Where it sits now in the barn
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Thanks for reading.
George-

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 8th, 2011, 1:14 am
by Veefan
Hi,

Looks like a nice project. The frame looks pretty original which will keep the vintage guys happy. It also looks like the a previous owner updated the front hoop (the bar area in front of the steering wheel) and added forward bracing to the rear roll bar. Which are great added safety features and... might qualify the car to run with modern SCCA formula vees also. The "missing link" in many old Vees looking to run in the vintage groups is a racing log book and/or history which provides a date that qualifies the car as vintage. The car is clearly a Zink, so I'm sure most of the vintage groups will help you with getting a new log book if the car didn't come with one.

The forum sometimes goes a little quite in the winter months, but post any questions you or your dad have and I'm sure someone will jump on and help.

Good luck with the project!

This is what the roll hoop area looked like before the update. Who ever did it, did a nice job of adding one without cutting away all the original tubing.
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Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 8th, 2011, 11:26 am
by Dietmar
George:

Although there are no pics of the body, it looks like you have a head start on most "restorations"- you appear to have all the parts.

As stated already, there are people on this site willing to help with any questions you might have, so feel free to ask.

Lastly, a personal comment: Thanks for what you do.

Dietmar
http://www.quixoteracing.com

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 8th, 2011, 12:12 pm
by WNYVeeRacer
Hi George--
Where are you located ? and where did the Zink come from ?
I can't say for sure, but the front roll hoop looks a LOT like the one I put on my old Zink back in the 80's...and the Custom fuel cell cover looks like what I had made as a tank ( in pre-fuel cell days)
This might be my old car !
The bodywork I had used a " custom" rear engine cover that was not stock and fully covered the engine bay. I also had a Zero roll conversion tossed on it. And the nose section had, well, a fair amount of repairing done.. ie Gob's of glass on the inside( HEY -- it took me to school and beyond). Also, I had bullet mirrors mounted on Stainless triangular mounts that hooked over the joint of the 2 bodywork sections
It was a great car & I loved it... I gave me some great finishes in the NYSRRC and KryderRacing series.
If you have any bodywork pix, they would be the give-away.
Let me know, I might have some info that'd be helpful
and if its not mine... You can't go wrong with a Zink. Good Luck
Dennis Potocki ( WNYVeeRacer )

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 9th, 2011, 11:09 pm
by gcurl
Thank you all for the comments and the offers of advise. I'm quite sure I'll be visiting the site quite a bit to learn all I can.
The car is in Texas, but was purchased in Oklahoma. I'm currently trying to research it's history through word of mouth, emails, and such from previous owners and others who know of the car. Dad was able to contact one of the previous owners and he still has the log book. When he has time he'll try to get it, scan it, and email it to me. It did come with bodywork, but I think the rear cover and nose are incorrect. From what I understand, reproductions are available but getting them is a bit down on the list at the moment. With the cold weather in Texas, dad has been spending his time working on his MGB getting it ready for the upcoming vintage season so not much is being done. I've also been emailing back and forth with the previous owner to have the motor gone through. He's been very nice and willing to help out in getting me on track(pun intended). I am looking forward to getting my hands dirty, but if long periods in the sandbox have taught me anything, it's patience.

Here are a few more pictures with the bodywork originally from the "for sale" ad to get an idea of what it looks like and if it looks familiar to anyone.
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Thank you for reading
George-

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 11th, 2011, 10:26 am
by WNYVeeRacer
Hi again George.
Well the sides & nose sections are the same as I had - the nose looks as beat up as I left it--gotta stop pushing people... :-)
The tail is different than what I had -- but that coulda been swapped. I recall the guy that bought it from me put on those style mirrors.
The body was painted white when I last saw it ( is that white overspray on the inside of the bodywork ?)
No matter what, you've got a great project to keep you going.
When you check the logbooks look for my name or Jeff Quedenfeld(sp) up here in NY who bought it from me.
Once you get to work on it -- I have some original parts lists and diagrams that may be of help -- don't hesitate to give a shout.
Good luck and take care of yourself over there.

Dennis

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 2:43 am
by gcurl
Slight update to the project.
Frame has been straightened and repainted. Once on the table it was shaped like a banana with a slight twist. That has been corrected and now painted with a new aluminum belly pan riveted on(not in the pictures).

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Front end parts painted.
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Hoping to get it out to SC in the next few months so I can keep plugging away at it. I'd love to make it to the 50th in Georgia either with or without the car.

Thanks for looking,
George-

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: May 26th, 2012, 10:19 am
by BLS
George,

I missed this earlier. I have an older Zink that I raced in the 70's. It is all original except for the tail which looks similar to yours.

Pics after rescuing it from my dad's garage are here: http://www.formulavee.org/interchange/v ... f=2&t=4346

It is currently torn down to every part and piece. I'm keeping it until I decide if I want to try vintage someday (currently have a Citation being prepped for club racing). If you have any questions or need pictures of some item just let me know and I'll do the best I can to help.

Regards,
Barry

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: June 27th, 2012, 10:08 pm
by gcurl
Huge thanks to Veefan for digging up a lower engine/trans mount. The Zink is now a roller.
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Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: June 28th, 2012, 5:37 pm
by ajax
George,
It is wonderful to see such great progress since the vee left my garage! I have looked in my vee stash for motor mounts, but nothing found? I certainly wouldn't want them as they could infect the "better" Lynx parts! God speed getting back, and involve in vintage vee with CVAR! What is the status of the engine with the case with a major hole in the side?

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: June 28th, 2012, 6:24 pm
by gcurl
Hey Roger!
Engine got stripped of heads, flywheel, ancillaries, dizzy, intake, and carb. The case of course was destroyed. The cam came out in 4 pieces. 3 of the cylinders and pistons took severe damage on the skirts, 3 of the rods were bent, and the crank had pretty nasty gouges on 2 of the rod journals. I'm slowly building up my "motor fund" with the frequent deployments and TDYs. Once the car gets a bit closer to being done I'll start looking for a replacement.
There's still hydraulics, wiring, fuel system, and bodywork to do before I'll worry about finding a motor. Worse case I can pick up a local 1600 cheap and use it to do shakedown runs at the local autox. It wouldn't be competitive, but it would be more about getting seat time and making sure nothing is amiss in the rebuild.

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: August 18th, 2013, 8:39 pm
by gcurl
Zink is in SC!! It now has brakes after an order to Pegasus and Jegs. Freshly rebuild short box has been installed. Used motor is out for a rebuild with fingers crossed that it's rebuild-able. Original Zink tail section should be on it's way. Having a little issue with bearing caps, but otherwise, progress is being made.

Had some fun while home prior to bringing it out to SC.
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Bleeding and adjusting brakes with the wife and boy.
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Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: January 28th, 2015, 10:57 pm
by gcurl
Hello all,
Finally back stateside and working on my Zink restoration again.
Little background, purchased a Zink a while back and have been slowly preparing it for vintage FV racing when not deployed.
I've recently run into an issue of fitting the fan shroud and charging system.
The fan shroud was making contact with the rear support bars for the main hoop. I did a little hammering to an old damaged shroud and managed to get enough clearance as shown in the below pictures.
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Now however, I've see to have discovered another issue. When mounting the generator, the pulley and shaft isn't going to clear the firewall, seat belt mount, or original throttle cable pivot point.
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I am aware I'm using a 12v generator which is a little longer than the original 6v generator, but even using an offset pulley will cause the belt to make contact with the throttle cable pivot point when lined up with the lower pulley.

From the other pictures I've seen of Zinks online, there should be no need to clearance the fan shroud to clear the frame tubes and while a tight fit, the generator pulley should have no issues clearing the firewall area.

I'm currently taking a step back to figure out the space issues. Is it possible the engine mounts are spacing the entire engine/transaxle too close to the firewall? I do know they are not original.

My current solutions include either rebuilding the engine mounts (worried about clearance between the top of the transaxle and trapezoid) or installing spacers between the frame and trapezoid (little nervous about the frame strength with this idea)

Any suggestions?

Thank you,
George

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: January 29th, 2015, 12:05 am
by BLS
George,

The original Zink had a cutout in the firewall to clear the generator pulley, even a 6 volt. There was a small cover that then went over that. Of course the original did not have a fuel cell behind the seat, so that space was empty. You will have to check and see if that would work with your fuel cell. EDIT: Actually, that cover and cutout were above the seat belt harness bar on the upper part of the firewall, so it should clear your fuel cell without issue.

I think you need to make sure you have the correct fan shroud first. Also, did the previous owner have a generator / fan shroud? If so, it's hard to understand why it doesn't fit now unless it is just the wrong type. I find it a bit odd that your fan shroud did not fit between the frame rails since it all looks to be original. I'm thinking maybe you have the wrong fan shroud. They type you want should fit in without issue. Possibly, if you have the wrong shroud it may be pushing your generator forward as well. I do not know the difference in length of the 6v Vs the 12v generator. Or, since the lower engine mounts are not original as you say, maybe they have the whole engine tranny assembly pushed forward slightly. You will need to measure the relationship of the engine tranny lower bolt holes to the trapezoid to tell. I don't know what that is at the moment but can probably dig the stuff out and measure mine this weekend

It's possible your seat belt bar has been modified as it just looks like the shaft for the generator is way wrong.

You cannot extend the trapezoid back as that will lengthen the wheelbase which is already at the maximum of 83.5". At least not and comply with SCCA rules, maybe other organizations are different. Well, unless the lower tranny mount is wrong, but it would be pretty easy to fab up a correct one in that case.

Did you ever replace the tail (from an earlier comment you made)? The one you have, while not the original Zink was used widely (it is what I have) and came from the Zink FF (Z10 I think). I would think it would be acceptable for vintage.

Let me know and I will try to get my stuff out to make any measurements you may need or take pictures. I'm located near Charlotte. If you are in Ft Jackson it is <2 hours. Maybe if you are close and want to take a look sometime you can plan a visit.

Regards,
Barry

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: January 29th, 2015, 10:51 am
by gcurl
Barry,
Thank you very much for the response. I wish I'd had a chance to visit while in SC. After returning from my last trip, we've since moved to San Antonio TX.

I didn't receive the Zink with any of the charging system or tins. I've been piecing the bits together. The fan shroud is aftermarket but should be the correct size/shape for the original 36hp engines.
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I did manage to find an original style tail section, but have kept the other as a spare.
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Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: January 29th, 2015, 11:29 am
by WNYVeeRacer
George..
I haven't checked on your progress recently...... and now that I'm looking I see your photos & notes about repairing the twist in the Chassis.... That clinches it ! I 'm sure this is my old C-4.. I got knocked on my head at a race at Nelson Ledges in 1984 ( I think )... got some major repairs ( New roll hoop and some frame straightening)... but I always though things were a bit tweaked. Raced it anyhow & it worked good enough. If you have the log books going back to '84 ,you may see the tech notes after the accident.
( If you have the log books - Am I one of the prior owners??? )
Re you generator issue... when I first had the car I did run a generator (6 volt ) & recall there was an access hatch built into the firewall allowing access to the pulley nut ( as Barry notes)... later, I went to ducts to the heads... and likely redid the firewall.
That all being said... You're doing a fantastic job on the restoration and are going to have yourself a gorgeous Vintage Vee when done..
Keep posting your progress.... It's good to see
Good Luck.

Dennis Potocki

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: January 29th, 2015, 12:25 pm
by BLS
George,

For some reason I thought you were still in SC...

Mark's response on the Apex site seems about right. My concern about the fan housing fit is because of your issues. Since I only have an original german housing I would not know of aftermarket issues. Mark address's these and it makes sense to me. Particularly the part about "leveraging" the fan housing back. Since Dennis thinks this is a car he had, and it was run without fan housing and with replaced firewalls, you would not have the original Zink firewall with the cutout and cover over the generator pulley. That is easy to make. You just cut a round hole for clearance of the pulley and access to the pulley nut, then make a cover for that. The cover will not be flat...

I'm sure the vintage racers like Mark have probably run into all the same issues you have.

Let me know if you need anything and I'll try my best to help out. I'm looking forward to your first "race report". Good Luck!

Barry

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 4th, 2015, 4:21 pm
by ajax
George,
It is Roger again, That old Zink frame is sure looking good. My ownership when you purchased in OK. was quite short, as I took it in as a trade for labor to remove a blown motor (the one with that huge hole in the case) and prep and install a SCCA motor to vintage spec and install in the owners other Vee.

As I recall, He had originally purchased the Zink just for that motor and did a CVAR School and a couple of CVAR events until that engine blew up. If I recall the story correctly, he said he found the Zink in the Atlanta GA. area in a climate controlled garage and in with several collectible cars. Seems the owner had raced the Zink for many years, but as his old buddies dropped out, he finally lost interest and just stored the vee, keeping it just in case he ever felt the need to race again, but finally sold it. Your Zink FV ran for many years in SCCA events, but suffered only a few major up dates over the years, (that tail & nose) However the installed engine was a full SCCA national type motor and did not run a fan or generator, and had a separate oil cooler. I'm sure over the years you will find that the original roll bar has been upgraded to meet SCCA rules, with additional hoop supports added, it may even have been moved or angled back to give the driver more room, etc. That seat fuel cell, is different from the original saddle tanks supplied, along with the SCCA required roll hoop at the steering wheel. So bottom line is I would not expect any effort was considered about using the old 36HP fan shroud, or a generator of any voltage type. when it was raced over those many years. You may find you will need to cut and adjust some of the firewall supports to make it all fit back up. If the engine bolts in square with the tranny then the mounts must be correct and good. You just need to mount the generator to the fan shroud, make sure the engine pulley is dead straight to the generator pulley (when run loose, belts will fly off if not aligned!) Then just re-built the fire wall support with throttle parts as required, etc to make sure it clears the belt. Many times the fire wall is cut out to allow pulley room and a cover is added to the drivers side. Let your imagination run wild...or go see some of the Zinks running as vintage set up today, bet you will see all types of designs, and fixes for the issues you report.

Keep it up you are almost there!!!

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 25th, 2015, 11:33 am
by gcurl
This past weekend I went to the final CVAR race at TWS. There were about 45 vees there with a large majority being Zinks. I was able to chat with several owners and take lots of pictures that will help in getting mine back on track. Especially nice was seeing the clutch and throttle cable routings used by the various vees.
Levering the generator back gave me the room I needed for the seat belt mounts. It is still a tight fit, but I was able to test it with some old belts that came with the car.
I completed the wiring and got to watch my 5 year old son's face light up when I let him flip the ignition switch and push the starter button. Getting to see everything turn over and light up made both of us very happy. We haven't tried a test fire yet. I'm waiting on the arrival of my fuel cell and I also realized I don't have a fire extinguisher in the garage after our move. Didn't want to risk burning everything up for a test fire.
Once the weather warms up, we'll hopefully run the cables for clutch and throttle and use the aluminum my dad brought to TWS to make an upper firewall and access panel.

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 25th, 2015, 5:39 pm
by Dietmar
George:

Glad to read that the generator issue has been "resolved"

Dietmar
Quixote Racing

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: February 26th, 2015, 12:48 am
by BLS
George,

Sounds like real progress. I hope we hear about it cranking up, and a ride around the neighborhood soon. 8)

Barry

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: July 14th, 2016, 9:05 pm
by gcurl
Well it has been a while, but I've been enjoying the Zink. Following through with my plan to autocross for a bit to work out any issues and have been having fun since last November. The car has been very reliable and competitive in the local C mod class.
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Stripped it down in April to start the bodywork.
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After quite a bit of fiberglass work and paint
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Quick in-car video of the last event. Still a bit slow, but getting faster every time.
https://youtu.be/xsCwOenUstY

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: July 15th, 2016, 1:04 am
by BLS
Looks good George! Glad to see you are getting to have some fun with it.

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: July 15th, 2016, 9:48 am
by FV80
Nice looking restoration. Are those just transport tires, or are you ax'ing on those? If ax'ing, you really should try to find some SLICKS for it. You can probably pick up some from a road racer for little (or NO) cost and would make the car considerably faster on the course (in the right hands :mrgreen: ). You'll need to work on your "tire warming" techniques, but should move you into a faster category pretty quickly.
Steve

Re: Zink C4 restoration-the long term project

Posted: July 18th, 2016, 2:40 pm
by gcurl
Thank you. I'm very happy with how the paint came out and how much fun the car is to drive.

Steve,
The tires one the car are the one's I'm autoxing with. What can I say, they were dirt cheap and the same dimensional size as Dunlop TDs were. I've thought about hunting for slicks (new or used) but right now I'm still feeling out the car. Each event is a chance to learn something new about adjusting myself to the car and adjusting the car to the course. Sometime soon I hope to see if anyone has takeoffs I could get affordably.

Pops was at my last event and showed me via video and walk arounds where I'm losing time on course. Oddly, while I usually look at least a 1/4 mile ahead on the street, on course I tend to focus only on the corner I'm in. I also tend to use braking compression to slow the car instead of hydraulic brakes to slow so I end up letting off much earlier in the corners than necessary.