What make of vee is this?

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Victoracing
Posts: 53
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 6:50 pm

What make of vee is this?

Post by Victoracing »

I would like to identify the make and year of this car. Frame is 1" square tubing throughout except the rear upper shock support that is 1 1/2" removeable. Trailing arms mount on 11/16" solid rod tripod outriggers. Never finished? as no evidence of rollbars or floorpan.

Body has cockpit top and this tail section, female moulds only. Engine shroud is 28 1/2" x 28" x 16" long, tapering to 10" x 6 1/2" x 24" tranny cover. This seems the best lead to identify the car, as it is quite distinctive. No history or logbook from seller, Bob in Towson, MD.


Thanks for your help. Gary, NJ


Thanks, Bob, for photos!
Last edited by Victoracing on December 7th, 2009, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NotMoss
Posts: 80
Joined: June 25th, 2006, 12:05 pm

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by NotMoss »

I dunno what make, but that frame is built like the proverbial brick s...house!!! :mrgreen:
Ted FV 07 (Retired)
subrew
Posts: 32
Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:23 am

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by subrew »

Looks like an AutoDynamics to me. The keys are how the front beam mounts on the forward most vertical bars, and the rear cross bar behind the engine being in a /\ shape. Pretty much identical to mine. A few slight differences in the middle cross supports, and of course, yours doesn't have a roll hoop

My frame:

[ external image ]

[ external image ]

And finished

[ external image ]

Hope this helps,

Chris H.
NotMoss
Posts: 80
Joined: June 25th, 2006, 12:05 pm

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by NotMoss »

As I look at the frame in question again...
Wouldn't it be pretty hard to get your legs in and feet down to the pedals in this frame?
Look at the braced crossbar just below the steering/dash support. Can't imagine how that would work unless the photo perspective makes something seem to be somewhere it is not.
Ted FV 07 (Retired)
BobShedd
Posts: 57
Joined: July 16th, 2006, 10:34 am

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by BobShedd »

It is a Autodynamics. It is either a MK 4 or 5. I have restored 3 of these and I am sure. I probably could come up with a pic of one of the frames if necessary. Nice find. Bob
Dietmar
Site Admin
Posts: 650
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 11:56 am

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by Dietmar »

For what it is worth, I would say this is a CLONE of an AutoD. The front beam mounts look to be two 1X1's welded together- not something found on the AutoD's. The rear trans support is not there (it is also missing on Chris H's car). AutoD's did not have front motor mounts.

The molds look more like the tail for an early Mark 2 or 3.

As for it being a 4 or 5, Mark 4's and 5's had a round diagonal brace that went from the center cross piece to one side of the front cross piece plus all of the above.

Lastly, I would look at the joints- all AutoD's were brazed.

That's all I can remember from my old cars.

Dietmar
DanRemmers
Posts: 293
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 7:21 pm

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by DanRemmers »

NotMoss wrote:As I look at the frame in question again...
Wouldn't it be pretty hard to get your legs in and feet down to the pedals in this frame?
Look at the braced crossbar just below the steering/dash support.
Yes, my car, a home-built one-off from 1974, has a cross bar at the bottom of the dash just like that.
You have to get in with your legs straight, like putting on a pair of pants. One of many reasons
it's a solo car and no longer road raced.
Victoracing
Posts: 53
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 6:50 pm

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by Victoracing »

Thanks to all who have replied this week.

Given the AD lead, I've looked at every photo of AD cars posted and see many similarities, yet the two big differences, which may be explained by the frame being an unfinished replacement or clone of original. 1) Trapezoid dash hoop, rather than round shaped. No braces (unfinished?)

2) No Z-bar mount to the rear of the last frame member ^ (unfinished? or were real early cars different?? or the redesigner was going to more modern suspension???)

Chris H... Thanks for the photos you posted. Nice frame detail!
Bob S. ... Authoritative answer .... AutoDynamics.
Dietmar ... Clone design makes sense, but it is very well built; square measurements every dimension; all tubing welded, not braze.
Front beam mount is 1 x 2" tubing with central I-beam. No evidence of welding two 1" box pieces, or the doubled thickness you would get inside if it were two pieces.
Rear trans. mounts .... Robson' s ad for 2-car sale (APEXSpeed, to Facebook photos) are the arms on the 65 - 67 brown car correct? Just as importantly, would you say I should add these? I'm interested in making it right, safe, and fast; Chris H's car is proof it can work with modified design.

Bodywork, tail mould does not match any photo found. Other photos of Mk. 2 or 3 available?
Mine has short engine "box" and long, narrow tail.
Real AD's either have long "box" extending to end of shifter, or the short "box" and shorter
tail. I don't know enough about the early cars to identify which Mark # is which.

Once again, thanks to everyone who responded; Bob RG; and the FV Interchange site.
Gary C, .... NJ D-13. .. . Gcssbn at aol dot com ... . 10 Jan. 09
Victoracing
Posts: 53
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 6:50 pm

Re: What make of vee is this? New Clue

Post by Victoracing »

New clue to identify tail mould. . . . . Under Autodynamics listing in the Pace/Brinker book "Vintage Amer Road Racing Cars 1950-1970" I found a description that "D-1 had a longer, narrow tail than the later cars."

Any D-1 (Mk. 1, I presume) owners confirm this, or have photos that match/no match my mould and spec sizes?


Chris H. . . . . which Mk. is your #96 vee?

Thanks, Gary C . . . . . 15 Jan. 09
fastvee
Posts: 65
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 11:59 am

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by fastvee »

[quote="Victoracing"]
1) Trapezoid dash hoop, rather than round shaped. No braces (unfinished?)
2) No Z-bar mount to the rear of the last frame member ^ (unfinished? or were real early cars different?? or the redesigner was going to more modern suspension???)

I wouldn't describe this as a clone, but a homebuilt, although it is obviously copied from a Series IV or V Autodynamics. There are too many differences for it to be a clone, and curious that they would copy an Autodynamics since even in 1969 it was no longer the car to have. The square tube does make for a simpler fabrication and maybe that is an explanation? The Z-bar on the Series V was mounted on the back side of the upper shock bolt. To finish I would add the fourth brace for the trailing arm pivot which ends on the lower frame rail at the dash bulkhead, add the diagonal in the lower plane of the foot box, and add the braces for the front hoop. There were also two removeable diagonals in the engine bay, and two diagonals in the driver's bay which were used to hold the seat. It would be a good time to update the chassis to current SCCA roll cage specs by removing the square tubing and adding a dash hoop, rear hoop and required braces. Personally I would not finish this car since it is not a vintage car. This may not be a problem with the group you intend to race with, but it would be best to check with them before spending a lot of money on it.
John
Fogelsville, PA
fastvee
Posts: 65
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 11:59 am

Re: What make of vee is this? New Clue

Post by fastvee »

[quote="Victoracing"]New clue to identify tail mould. . . . . Under Autodynamics listing in the Pace/Brinker book "Vintage Amer Road Racing Cars 1950-1970" I found a description that "D-1 had a longer, narrow tail than the later cars."

Any D-1 (Mk. 1, I presume) owners confirm this, or have photos that match/no match my mould and spec sizes?


The tail is not an Autodynamics tail, but something created for this homebuilt IMHO. Dean Curtis owns a Mark I which is pretty much the same as when John Grubb drove it, and there are pictures of the fully enclosed tail on-line. Didn't they call that the "Daytona Tail"?
John
Fogelsville, PA
ajax
Posts: 131
Joined: July 4th, 2006, 9:22 pm

Re: What make of vee is this?

Post by ajax »

Victoracing, I would not feel too bad if you can never put a name to your frame. In the early days of FV almost every Vee built was a homebuilt job. This is not to say they were not well made, by skilled men with vision to build a better mouse trap (er vee) there were as many ideas on how to weld or mfg a frame as ther were guys running in vee class. almost everyone started off as a clone of the original Form Car. Some guys rather then build a kit, felt they had a better idea and built their own frame, In the 60's fiberglass was everywhere people were building lots of swoopie car bodies, boats, airplanes, you name it. maybe they only built 1, maybe they made 3 copies? Only a few ever "made it" and got to the point they could be concidered a real builder like Form Car, Zink, AD, Lynx. Even these "big" guys had had little or no protection from other guys building clones off their designs. Even today I'd say it is fair to say most of the modern cars have roots that came from the Lynx/ Carcal.

As to building your frame into a finished vee...Why not, because it did not have a vintage racing history? The first photo certainly shows a vintage patina! How is this different from building a raced vee left unsed for 30 years and replacing 80% of the frame for safety reasons? Please realize building a FV is not easy, if you are new to the class you will have to learn 50 years of "tricks" to make a safe reliable and maybe a competitive FV. As long as at minimum you research the "safe" way to build it and follow rules your vintage group follows, including the rear suspension used, no zero roll, then a legal engine, etc. Most Vintage Vee were used for years, owners modified them time and time again in an attempt to stay competitive! FV is not like Formula Ford where a mfg actually put a name tag on the frame, and their owners raced a year or two then purchased the newest lastest hot model.

Good luck with your project!
Victoracing
Posts: 53
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 6:50 pm

Re: What make of vee is this? SOLD 9/24/2011

Post by Victoracing »

Gone to a good home.

Thanks, Gary
Last edited by Victoracing on September 23rd, 2011, 12:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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