Engine ID/ oil pressure problems

[Marcus]

Can anyone tell me what year my engine was manufactured? The case number is 9470171. I need to order a new oil pump and do not know which one to get. The present one is behind a cover with a fitting on it that goes to a remote filter, then fed back into the case into a protusion below to the front of the distributor. When I fitted a mechanical guage it barely pushed the oil to the end of the tube before I attached it to the guage with starter power only. Plugs were removed. I'm only guessing the starter could fill the tube. Am I on the wrong track? The only tool that came with the spares is an oil pump puller which makes me think the previous owner had planned to do this. The car ran fine while producing no smoke but made little pressure( around 5 psi while revving) Thanks for any help as I am without knowledge - Marcus

[John Deonarine]

One reference, places the engine between 12/64 - 7/65 from what you described the oil is being returned thru the oil pressure sender bung. Where is your oil pressure sender currently located? There are different oil pumps for different engines, it seems to depend on the size of the oil pump studs that hold the pump into the case.

John

[Marcus]

The sender is currently on the side of the case, the warning light switch is on the front. The oil is returned from the filter into a much larger, threaded port on the front of the case. The oil temp sender is threaded into the remote oil filter base. Thanks - Marcus

[Dietmar]

Marcus:

Unfortunately, I am on the road and can not give you the number to use to order with, but from what you describe, you have a pump with 6mm studs in the case and the year to ask for is 61 to 64. Might even go to 65 but it matters more the size of the studs(as someone already mentioned).

If you are only getting 5# oil pressure then I would say that something is wrong. Usually, a stock VW pump will give you about 27# at 3000rpm and fall to 6-8 at idle when the oil is hot.

If you have an electric sender then I would check that first. Manual gauges are cheap and will tell you if the sender is working. The place to pick up oil TEMPs is at the front or side of the case- you would have to have the case apart to drill into the case for this sender location.

Hope this helps
Dietmar

[Marcus]

There was enough stud protruding from the nut to measure with a bolt guage, it did not fit in the 7 and the 8 slid right over. Have to make a pully puller that will fit in between my firewall brace and motor. I'm going to replace the pump first and hope it helps. Should I do away with the remote oil filter? This is my 2nd car and I do not forsee a lot of track time in it. I really bought the car because I could not stand NOT having a Vee. I would like it to look as original as possible when finished and the shiny aluminum bothers me a bit in that respect. I would hope the stock oil system components would be sufficient with limited use. I think a stock pump cover and a plug on the existing inlet would revert it back to normal and eliminate all that braided hose that seems so out of place to me. On this car I want to go plane Jane. Anyone chime in if I am doing anything stupid. Thanks- Marcus

[Rickydel]

RUN THE PAPER FILTER! You will be much better off.

After pulling your pump off, you can inspect the outer edges of the gears, and the pump housing where those outer edges of the gears run. If you see scoring, then you are losing pressure around the tips of the pump gears. If they are both smooth, you have a different problem, assuming the pump housing and gears go together.

The mechanical gauge tubing will not "fill" with oil, if that is what you are looking for. They operate properly with lots of air in them. The air just ends up being compressed to the amount of your oil pressure.

Where are you located? Let the forum know, and maybe someone can scoot over to your place and take a look.

Good luck.

[FM4SOLO]

Be carefull about just replacing the pump cover and plugging the return "hole". The case and/or the pump outlet should have been plugged to redirect the pump output to the cover outlet. If you just replace and plug, you will have NO oil pressure!

[Marcus]

Great info- thanks guys, I'll order a new pump pronto. When I wrote that it would not fill the tube to the mechanical guage it was with the end of the tube open before attaching the guage. Thats like me not being able to blow water through an open straw. So that was really low. I'll keep the filter since I already have it and it must have been modified in order to run it. Where it returnes to the case is next to and just below the centerline of the pulley. So close in fact that I have to remove the fitting in order to get the belt on. The car must have gone back to the builder in '80 because his name showed up on the log book and who knows what machining he might have done when the car was SCCA'd. Although if the guy I bought it from added the filter and not plugged the passage in the oil pump housing it might not be doing it's job as well. I'll know more when I manage to get the pully off and have access to the pump cover. I really appreciate the info. Thanks again. - Marcus

[satterley_sr]

Marcus,

Before you pull the pump make sure the pressure relief valve is free. Towards the front of the motor there is a big slotted screw, unscrew it & a spring & plunger should fall out. Make sure the plunger is free in the bore. Also pull your sump plate & make sure your pick up tube is unobstucted. For the oil pressure you are saying, the pump would have to be complete toast. These pumps are always full of oil and nomally don't wear a lot.

Hope this helps.

Dave


http://www.ddcracing.com

[Marcus]

I pulled the pump and there was lots of scoring on the gears, case and cover. The left port was tapped and plugged. The passage behind the plug was open and goes up and to the left where my filter return line was connected. I cut the filter and there was barely any debris. I expected much more after seeing the condition of the pump. Now to find the correct pump is the rub. Are the gears measured across the face or are there different depths? I came up with 21mm deep and 32mm across. I am guessing they are the 30 mm gears. I have no idea if it has large or small galley holes or 3 bolt cam or 4 bolt cam or dished cam or flat cam. Would someone make a recommendation? Thanks again. - Marcus

[SR Racing]

If your engine was built for FV, it is almost invariably a 3 bolt (rivot) non dished cam gear. A 21mm pump is the standard. (PN is 111.105.107A) This pump is for 8mm studs. We have them in stock. (Actually we have all the VW pumps in stock.)

Jim
SR
859-252-2496

[Marcus]

I installed a new oil pump with 26mm gears. Now I get 15 psi from the starter with plugs removed. I'll put it together this wknd and run the motor. Good indication that I'll have sufficient pressure. Thanks for all your help.

[SR Racing]

The 26mm pump is fine. However, if you are racing FV, you really want the 21mm pump. At the higher RPM's we turn you will get more than enough flow and waste less HP. If you are pulling stumps at below 4000RPM the 26mm is the pump of choice.

JIm

[billinstuart]

Tip clearance of the gears to the housing is critical in a Vee. Ever really look at how the pump works? The meshing between the gears is NOT where the oil is pumped..it is actually carried around the periphery of the gears! The meshing keeps the oil from returning to the pickup side. Excessive tip clearance won't move oil effectively, especially thin oil.

I've seen NEW pumps that are defective..too much tip clearance. If you have a good pump, DON'T ever change it.