Ceramic coating pistons

[twofoot]

Hi all. Now that I will soon be the proud owner of a Beach 5c, I need to start thinking about getting it up and running for the spring. I plan to run strictly vintage class, so would it be "legal" (acceptable?) to have the pistons ceramic coated in the interest of engine longevity? I doubt there are any appreciable performance gains from the process.

Apparently it works wonders on reducing friction and keeping our old air cooled technology happy.

Thanks

Chris

[Dietmar]

Chris:

MOST ( as in ALL that I know of) organizations do not allow the "adding of materials".
Suggest you find out before you invest the $$$$
Dietmar

[Larry Bradley]

Ditmar could be right.
SO if you really feel strongly about this if you really want to do this, then do it and don't tell anyone.

Larry

[FV55inSpokane]

I personally think that you'd be getting pleanty of life out of the stock pistons we all have used anyway. You can expect to run them for at least several years, depending on your driving style and how many hours per year you put on the engine.
Your results may vary

[twofoot]

It's just that I've seen *amazing* results when the process has been applied to vintage racing motorcycles. We're really only two extra tires away from their technology.

See what I mean here:
http://www.geocities.com/team2motorsports2/pistons.html

I'll have to ponder. LOL

Chris

[FV55inSpokane]

Piston on the left seems to have been the victim of a too lean mixture situation. Two-stroke pistons look just exactly like that when you lean them out too much and they melt.
I'm not saying that the coating process doesn't work, more like that piston would've melted with or without the coating.
It's your choice: If you want to use the coating for "longevity" reasons or if you want to use if to gain a fraction of a HP over the other competitors.

[John Deonarine]

I cannot support any suggestion that ceramic coating of the pistons is in the best interest or spirit of the class. A number of recent posts appear to to question the "lack of technology" within Formula Vee racing. I think the rules have been in place to do that exactly that, limit the modification of: suspensions, engines and transmissions. With the goal of maintaining the cost and encouraging open competiton.

John

[FV55inSpokane]

Exactly!

[ajax]

Good gosh I would not tell anyone either....For fear they would laugh about me wasting money on this for 1200 CC 50 HP engine turning around 5800 RPM with maybe 7.5:1 compression. Hardly anything like a high strung bike motor, even most stock ones!
Also this is vintage!!!!! A simple rule to go by, Was it legal in 1969, was it even available in 1969. If not, then don't do it. A well preped motor with correct tuning info from any of this sites sponcers will give a vintage motor years of life, specially the piston!

[bobc]

If 1959 is the benchmark I don't think that Mobil 1 or other synthetic oils were aviable. Are they legal to run vintage?

[Dietmar]

bobc:

Synthetic oils were being developed in the 30's in Germany because they did not have enough petroleum based oil available.

Synthetics came on the market about 1970 ( Neo oil), followed by others like Red Line, Amsoil, Mobil 1 (not sure of the order).

Dietmar

[brian]

Having had and rebuilt many vintage bikes the two issues are very different. Most British bikes will seize a piston with little provocation other than a warm day. The vw pistons, if receiving any air at all and clearanced properly, will never touch. The ring lands will wear out but never the skirts. I recommend clearances from .0025 to .0045 with .007 the very upper limit. If you see galling on the piston skirts, check your cooling ducts and make sure the deflectors are installed underneath the cylinders.

All coatings do very little unless there's a metal to metal touch. Same with coated bearings. There are some oil shedding coating and friction reducers for lifters and cams, but our class does not allow any of them.

[ajax]

how did 1959 get into the discussion? FV came into being in 1963/64, most vintage groups including the Monoposto allow up to 1969, some groups like CVAR allow up to 1972.

[Dietmar]

Can't speak for bobc, but I would assume it was a slip of the finger from 6 (69) to 5 in 59.

And Brian is right on again. The only real damage I have seen on piston skirts is a result of improper clearances.
Dietmar

[billinstuart]

Skirt clearance isn't as important as ring land clearance, and those heavy rings will beat up the ring lands first. Coating won't help this. Save your money and don't worry about coating the pistons with anything.