Runoffs Qualifying

Post Reply
FV80
Site Admin
Posts: 1195
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am

Runoffs Qualifying

Post by FV80 »

For those of you that are NOT attending the Runoffs (and some of you who are), SCCA has made a "no change" change to the schedule for Tues and Wed qualifying. The sessions will be extended to 40 minutes long and the F5's will go for the first 20 minutes on Tuesday and the Vees get the last 20. On Wed, the classes reverse order. Start times are the same as the 8/20 schedule on the SCCA website. The second class will be fed out onto the track when the 1st group gets the checker.. supposedly. In MANY years of racing, I have seen this statement over and over .. but have YET to have the first car of the second group allowed onto the track until the LAST car from the first group gets the checker - and it's almost always been "last car is in pit lane" before anyone is released. In my mind, that means that the 1st group will get 20 minutes and the 2nd group will get only about 17 or so at best...maybe as little as 12 or 13. We'll see. At least it's better than having almost 80 cars on track at the same time...

This has been confirmed via email from Terry Ozment today.
FYI,
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
Terry Abbott
Posts: 73
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 8:26 am

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by Terry Abbott »

Agreed Steve,

Time will tell but I'm guessing we will NOT get the time coming. Pretty sad the LARGEST OPEN WHEEL group will get short changed ALL WEEK long.

Thursday will be a wash with close to 80' cars on the track!

I understand on Thursday they have the 50th celebration at said time but couldn't they back there time up to give again the LARGEST OPEN WHEEL the same time as Tuesday and Wednesday ?
Terry Abbott
2- Vector FV's
AJP
Posts: 41
Joined: February 20th, 2008, 9:10 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by AJP »

Thanks for the heads up Mr Davis. I was going to write Terry O. but I'm beginning to see it's just futile.
I really think it's time FV, as a group, find another club to race with because we "ain't gettin' no love" from the club FV helped to build.
Yes, I know it's an effort to make things better for us but when you say it out loud, it sounds really stupid and sad.

I have an idea!! Let's tow half way across the country to spend all week waiting each day for a 20 minute qualifying session that could easily turn into crap.

The track is 4 miles long. We'll be lucky to get 5 or 6 laps each 20 minute session. This is the big one! Great. What the %$&$ am I doing this for?

They need to push some of the other not so well attended classes out and make good for the largest non-Spec class. It's as simple as that.
50 FVs signed up. 50 years of FV offering great racing for the SCCA and this is what we get....the solution to help us out is shorten our sessions. Genius!
This really makes me mad. And I'm the optimistic one in this operation!

My car will also be for sale after the Runoffs because we're not going to tow to Laguna Seca for 20 min sessions next year. Starting at $11k you'll get the whole car...carb, intake and exhaust included. As it comes off the track. Add $300 for every position above the top 15 it finishes. Really.

This message might change if my optimism returns or I start doing drugs.

-Andy P.
#75 Purple (the kind of Purple you can't take your eyes off) Citation
BLS
Posts: 441
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by BLS »

Makes perfect sense: Put a group of 28 cars (F5) with a 20 second lap time differential with the FV group of 50 cars = 78 cars on track.

Or, put the group of 28 cars with a 5 second lap time differential with the FE group of 13 cars = 41 cars on track.

Or, put the group of 28 cars with a 5 second lap time differential with the FM group of 17 cars = 45 cars on track.

The first choice is just brilliant.
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
satterley_sr
Posts: 237
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by satterley_sr »

BLS,

Makes way too much sense! How can we get it done?
BLS
Posts: 441
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by BLS »

I guess I should add, with so many classes, it is a task to get them all on track in a single day. Somebody is going to be unhappy no matter what decision is made.
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
Terry Abbott
Posts: 73
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 8:26 am

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by Terry Abbott »

What we got is what we got ......

The chief steward could only make a change by aug. 26 th
Terry Abbott
2- Vector FV's
satterley_sr
Posts: 237
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by satterley_sr »

Is the Monday practice included in the entry fee or is there a seperate charge?

Thanks

Dave
Terry Abbott
Posts: 73
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 8:26 am

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by Terry Abbott »

satterley_sr wrote:Is the Monday practice included in the entry fee or is there a seperate charge?

Thanks

Dave
Dave,

It's included .....
Terry Abbott
2- Vector FV's
hardingfv32-1
Posts: 1014
Joined: December 1st, 2006, 8:01 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by hardingfv32-1 »

The real issue here is that their are just too many FV entries. This race is marketed/organized to draw entries, not provide an optimum format for a championship race. This is just like the COTA event. All about revenue generation with no regard to event quality for the competitors.

There are no more than 10, maybe 15, FV competitors that are capable of racing at the front. If this is a true championship event, then what is the purpose of the other 35-40 cars?

Brian
FV80
Site Admin
Posts: 1195
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by FV80 »

hardingfv32-1 wrote:...If this is a true championship event, then what is the purpose of the other 35-40 cars? Brian
In the far past history of the Runoffs, it WAS a true championship event. People worked HARD to get there and HAD to do so since it was 'by invitation ONLY'. It was nip and tuck quite often as to whether you could "make it" to the big race. These days, SCCA is essentially BEGGING people to pay the money and show up. During the melee that follows, some people get crowned as National Champions. Some times, it's a great race. Some times .. not so much.

However, basically EVERYONE that goes, goes because we love this sport and want to be there. It's what we call FUN .. some times :mrgreen:

Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
SR Racing
Posts: 1205
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 1:58 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by SR Racing »

hardingfv32-1 wrote:. If this is a true championship event, then what is the purpose of the other 35-40 cars?
Brian
As Steve said, Revenue. In any case though, in the last 25 years I have been watching them, the winners certainly deserved to be there (along with the top 10+ cars)
brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by brian »

Frankly, it's always about revenue. It has to be. Anybody think Road America is free? If the event is limited to a couple of hundred cars, (top 10 times 20 or so classes), what do you think the entry fee would have to be to break even?

The balance of power lies with the tracks now and the single largest cost for any region is for the track. By the time you add up rental, ambulance, security and bathrooms, you're looking at well over 80% of the costs.

In the past decade, the cost per entry has risen about $40 dollars. Of that, track costs have gone up around $43. Notice the math doesn't work out? That's because the costs the club has some control of, like insurance, have gone down.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by CitationFV21 »

There is always room for field fillers - whether you call the back-markers or drivers just getting experience - very few start off on the front row. Theoretically, if you are 3rd in your division you could be no better than 20th in the country, - or you could be 3rd - depends on your competition. The bottom line is the lap times - get 50 cars within 4 seconds at RA and that is a pretty close field - so maybe there needs to be a time cutoff....

On the other hand there is something to be said about limiting the final to about 30 cars. In a perfect world (without so many classes) if you have 60 entries, you would have 2 heat races and a "last chance" race to determine the final race. like top 12 and 12 and then 6 get in.

If you had the Runoffs at a track like NJMP you could have simultaneous races going on for different classes. I think COTA could be made into 2 courses.

Of course with enough entries you could have your own FF/FV festival weekend like they do in England - no one says the SCCA is the only game in town. Or if they were smart - they could have Divisional Championship races on Labor day to decide the divisional champions who would go to the Runoffs - 4 weeks later. Divisions would have a certain number due to the average racers in the class during the year. Say the NE knows it is getting 8 invitations so the top 6 and the top two other high point scorers get in - That might build up some local spectator interest and be a promotable event. It would still give meaning to the other races during the year. Would eliminate cherry picking at out of divisional events.

Back to topic -20 minutes at Lime Rock would be more than enough time - 20 minutes at RA seems to little.

Chris Z
tiagosantos
Posts: 389
Joined: June 20th, 2010, 12:10 am

Re: Runoffs Qualifying

Post by tiagosantos »

Well Brian (Harding), I could post several examples of you finishing one or several laps down, being off the pace by a couple of seconds, at various tracks around California. Why did you even bother, and what were you even doing there? Maybe you should try karting to get some experience until you can hang with the front runners.
Post Reply