Front end spring mess

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rayce13
Posts: 26
Joined: April 13th, 2011, 10:46 am

Front end spring mess

Post by rayce13 »

Being a newby I was at the track two weeks ago and the front end was really stiff. Set up was with QA1 damping shocks that I had to compress a lot to get to connect and when connected it took a lot to get any movement in the front end (two guys bouncing on front). Almost like driving a go-kart. Well some experienced Vee guys were there and said, no big deal, just pull the springs out of the front end, cut two of them and put it all back in. This made sense in my limited understanding as it would relieve some of the spring tension and allow more flex allowing the shocks to move more.
Sunday I took the front end apart, pulled the springs out (no small thing given the tons of grease in there), cut two of them, re-stacked them and with a ton of difficulty finally go them to slide through and back in place. I was thrilled to have this done but then put the car back down on the ground and ZERO spring at all and front end hitting the stops. I am admittedly a newby and never done this before so I'm looking for any help.
For my front end, there are 4 solid spring bars (two have now been cut) with notches in them where the lock down bolts go in, one on each side and one in the middle. There are also four half bars (full length but split in half). I stacked them all on top of each other when putting back in. I have two other front ends and compared to them this stack looks loose at the ends.
Very frustrated so before tearing it apart again does anyone have a diagram or reference that they would show that shows how the springs are supposed to be put back in and/or any simple method for doing so? Getting them through the middle lock down square is darn near impossible without a lot of (*&^*%&%$$ words so I must be doing something wrong. What alignment should the bars be - rotated in the holder square? Where should the "split" spring bars be?

Thanks!
Russ Dykstra
FV '95 Citation #13
FV '93 Citation #31
jstoezel
Posts: 207
Joined: September 19th, 2010, 6:21 pm

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by jstoezel »

I am not familiar with the shocks you mention, but without them installed, a "regular" spring pack should not be that stiff, unless you guys weight 50lbs each. You might have had some binding initially (before you cut the spring pack), meaning the carrier and the torsion arms were not properly shimmed and were impeding front end movement.

There's also the possibility that the torsion bar was adjusted too tight, less likely though.

Bad shimming can lead to locking up the front.
Last edited by jstoezel on March 20th, 2012, 4:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Jean-Sebastien Stoezel
WCMA FV #0
Dietmar
Site Admin
Posts: 650
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 11:56 am

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by Dietmar »

Russ:

If you want to give me a call I would be happy to talk you throught his. As Jean said, it almost sounds as if the problem was not in the springs but in the link pins.

I will be here until 2pm or after 6 pm Pac time.Much easier than trying to go back and forth on this site.

Dietmar
http://www.quixoteracing.com
619 561 7774
smsazzy
Posts: 703
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 5:56 pm

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by smsazzy »

I would guess that you may simply need to rotate the turkey leg 90 degrees on the spring and then reassemble. You may have simply installed the turkey leg 90 degrees off on the spring.
Stephen Saslow
FV 09 NWR
kidkoh
Posts: 86
Joined: July 20th, 2006, 7:07 pm

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by kidkoh »

this happend to me as well when I first got my car togeather one year, as it turned out I over tightened the u bolts that hold the beam to the frame i was crushing the tubes and it was like I welded the turkey legs to the beam. remove the shocks and start backing off every bolt one at a time, without the shocks the car should bounce back and take very little force to push down. start with the link pin bolts and the link pins when you find the one that's binding re-post and we can work out your issue
FV80
Site Admin
Posts: 1195
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by FV80 »

Russ,
I was going to look you up in the FV Registry to find out where you are from .. but you're not there. Please join the FV Registry. We are trying hard to get a decent count of the FV racers out there. You can find the details on the FV website http://www.FormulaVee.us homepage, about 2/3 of the way down the page. You should also list your city and state on this site - perhaps one of us lives close by and can come by and SEE your problem and help you get it straightened out.

Anyone else involved in FV that reads this and has not signed up - please do so. You will not get ANY spam from the Registry, but you will get occasional updates about things that are directly related to the class and it's future. All messages from the registry have clear subject lines so you can easily find them or sort them using email filters.

Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
rayce13
Posts: 26
Joined: April 13th, 2011, 10:46 am

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by rayce13 »

Thank you for all the replies. I don't think its a binding or torsion issue as the front end moves freely without the shocks/springs in and the torsion bar is completely backed off and free. It may be that I just installed the springs 90 degrees off so I will try that first.

I have registered with the FV Registry and saw my name last time I checked but will check back.

Thanks again!
Russ Dykstra
FV '95 Citation #13
FV '93 Citation #31
Mad Dog Racing
Posts: 68
Joined: July 18th, 2007, 11:58 am

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by Mad Dog Racing »

You don't say anything about having a spring adjuster on the front beam. My Citation was built back before they were legal and I had to put about a 45 degree bend in the spring pack to establish ride height. It's a real pain, but that was all you could do. Now, you can put in the adjuster from the bug shops. With the 45 degree offset and a straight spring, one position will have the nose on the ground and the other will have it locked in the air like you mentioned. You can bend the spring either way, but one way lets you use the three stock grub screw points. Sounds like you might have replaced the spring with a straight one without re-setting it if it was OK before. Or maybe you turned a bent spring end-for-end so the offset is working against you. (Don't make me admit I might have done that, I'm just saying it could happen.)

The other kink with a Citation is the box is on the bottom beam so the spring has to be in the top beam. Other cars, like the Protoform have the steering box on the top beam so the adjuster and spring go on the bottom beam. Not sure an adjuster would clear the bodywork in the Citation on the top beam, never tried that. The bent spring will stay somewhere close for a couple of years, or half a season if you are anal about ride height, then you have to tweak it again. The adjuster should stay set unless you are one of the folks who change the ride height for different tracks.

Mad Dog
FV80
Site Admin
Posts: 1195
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by FV80 »

Russ,
Did you get this straightened out? What was the solution?
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
rayce13
Posts: 26
Joined: April 13th, 2011, 10:46 am

Re: Front end spring mess

Post by rayce13 »

I did get it figured out. I took it all back apart and re-assembled rotating the turkey leg on the spring set 90 degrees and it works perfect. Thanks for checking
Russ Dykstra
FV '95 Citation #13
FV '93 Citation #31
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