hard clutch?

[rayce13]

I have been rebuilding my Citation and have it almost done. We put in the new engine and were bleeding the clutch lines (car has sat for a while) and the clutch pedal wouldn't go down at all unless I braced myself against the roll hoop and pushed backward like a mule! It was really hard to push but at the end would roll over and depress. Thought the slave may have been bad so I got a new one and installed it tonight. Before installing I checked and there seemed to be full range of motion but after I installed and bled I had the same thing, have to push like crazy but then finally it gives and depresses. Very frustrated on this, any ideas??? BTW I'm a newbie so be kind if its something very simple and stupid!!!

Thanks

[SR Racing]

Did this setup work before with the same geometry on the clutch operating arm, pedal, etc? I suspect a problem with the geometry at the arm and/or an adjustment problem.
Let us know that you are sure it worked before with the same setup.

I would first loosen the adjustment completely and make sure the slave has full easy movement with pedal. Then slowly re-tighten the slave and see if it gets real hard again. If so you have a mechanical bind or geometry problem at the op arm.

[Dietmar]

When you say: installing the NEW engine, does that mean that the pressure plate or clutch disc is NEW.
If so, I would guess that you do not have enough free play at the throwout bearing- so as Jim said, try backing off the adjustment at the trans and see if that helps. You need about 1/8 " free play when pulling on the clutch arm

Hope this helps

Dietmar
http://www.quixoteracing.com

[Mystique Racing]

I just had the exact same problem with a engine that had sat for about 3 years. The clutch pedal was about 5 times harder to depress then it should have been. Also, I realized that even when I pushed the clutch all the way down the clutch was not disengaging. I had to start the car in (1st) gear and then drive the car up and down the street in first gear while pushing the clutch pedal in and out and finally the pressure plate released from the disc and the disc released from the flywheel. The hole assembly was stuck together and it took the heat of the motor and the continuous pumping on the clutch pedal to break it loose. Not sure if this is your problem but it sure sounds familiar.

[rayce13]

Thanks guys. I will unbolt the slave and see if I have full range of motion on that. I had to push pretty hard to get the bottom bolt in so maybe it is binding up but it didn't feel like that was the problem. If it is, then I will have to modify the entire mounting set up?????

[rayce13]

Forgot to answer your question Jim, when I bought the car it had no engine in it so I'm not sure if the geometry worked before but I would assume so. I guess I know what I get when I "assume". I honestly never tried the clutch pedal before putting the engine in.

[FV80]

Scott has a good thought - you can verify whether the clutch is actually disengaging when you get the clutch depressed - see if the car rolls free while in gear with the pedal down.
Steve, FV80

[jrv]

Does your Citation have the slave cylinder located vertically with the clutch activator arm bent about 90 deg? This is the OEM set up that was made clear the old exhaust system. My XTC-41 had it and it was almost impossible to get the clutch depressed. I had to push the pedal as you described and it only disengaged the clutch at the very bottom of the pedal. If you have this set up, try locating the slave in the stock VW position, especially if you have a later exhaust system. This will work like other Vees and VWs.

Jim Vaseff

[SR Racing]

My XTC-41 had it and it was almost impossible to get the clutch depressed

Jim, This was the case if the clutch op arm was not bent correctly. This caused a very bad motion ratio. All our Citations and our XTC use the lower mounting point. And they will work fine. There might be a slight pedal increase but the quicker motion makes up for it. If bent incorrectly it can take LOTS of foot power.

BTW, Scott (and others?) are correct about an old clutch disc sticking to the pressure plate. It is unbelievable how well they can freeze to the plate after sitting a couple years. Since this was a "new" engine though I doubt that is his problem.

[Dave]

Stupid question here. Did you take the clips out of the P.P.? Maybe with no free play you are forcing fluid past the seals in the slave. No movement possible.

[rayce13]

Stupider question...what is the "P.P."???

I appreciate all the in put and will check it all out on friday night, had a snow storm here today so shoveling duty instead of playing with the car!!

[BLS]

P.P. = Pressure Plate, I think...

[tiagosantos]

Yeah, if I remember right, the pressure plate ships with some clips that kinda hold it all together and are supposed to be removed during assembly.. Something like that

[CenDiv20]

Great point the shipping clips in the pressure plate need to be removed. It is shipped already compressed.... until you remove the clips to retract the fingers.

[brian]

Guys, the clips keep the pressure plate compressed to ease installation. If the clutch linkage is adjusted tight with the clips in, it may cause an issue of slipage or internal damage when they fall out, but would not likely cause the pedal to freeze. Neither would a stuck clutch disc. Take the slave off the tranny and see if the pedal works really easily. Be careful not to push the pedal too far since you could push the piston out of the slave. Next, take a wrench and operate the clutch arm on the tranny. It won't be easy but you should be able to move it. Finally, like someone said, put the car in gear and manually move the clutch arm and confirm that the car will move easily. If it does not, you may have a stuck clutch plate. Try rocking the car back and forth with the clutch engaged and try to free the clutch plate. The weight of the car should do it and I do not recommend driving the car with a stuck clutch since something else might be askew and you could cause greater damage. An example could be a throw out bearing that has fallen off.

[SR Racing]

Guys, the clips keep the pressure plate compressed to ease installation.

Actually they are there to cut 1/2 " off the shipping volume. They do help a little in installation, but I always remove them first anyways.

but would not likely cause the pedal to freeze.

Yes they will, if the clutch is installed with the clips on and then adjusted that way. The clutch fingers will overtravel. Seen it a couple times.

Neither would a stuck clutch disc..

Surprisingly enough it will. (as others have pointed out above.) The plate will be completlely bound to the disc. They will USUALLY break free with a few hundred pounds on the pedal, but not always. I purchased 2 vees many years ago that had set for awhile and BOTH were like that.

[rayce13]

Finally got the time to get out and work on the car. Pulled the slave off of the bottom mount and it works with ease. Worked the clutch arm on the tranny and it seems to have a full range of motion, I couldn't roll the car around and see if it fully disengages but that doesn't seem to be the problem. The bottom mount for the slave as it exists now puts the slave right up against the tranny housing (vertically even with the back edge of the car frame) so I think I am going to fabricate a bracket to extend that and inch or two back and see if that provides the correct geometry to run the slave easier. I don't think bending the clutch arm will help any with the problem I'm having.

[rayce13]

Just an update. After extending the bolt on bracket and straightening out the angle the clutch works perfect. Thanks all for the input and suggestions.