Head & neck restraint systems

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Don
Posts: 46
Joined: March 24th, 2007, 3:40 pm

Head & neck restraint systems

Post by Don »

I am interested in opinions / reccomendations for HANS, Simpson Pro Rage, or Simpson R3 Rage restraint systems for useability (fit) in a vee. Both seem comparitivly priced, so a decision would be based on fit and comfort. I appreciate vees are different, but given a representative vee cockpit with a 30 degree seat, what are people comfortable with or using. Does anyone have opinions on differences between them.

thanks, don
fvracer27
Posts: 247
Joined: October 25th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by fvracer27 »

Hans is simple and I don't know of anyone that has complained about comfort as long as they purchased the correct size and angle for there car. Great customer service from Hans and all there authorized dealers

I don't know much about others so I can't say I just don't know if I could deal with all the straps and something between my back and seat.
Mark Filip
NER #27
Womer EV-3
racing stuff
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by racing stuff »

First, I'll let you know that I only sell HANS.
I had the chance to look at the Simpson sold devices this week at the IMIS Indy show and I'm still not that much of a fan of something like that going down my back. And I'll bet that it requires the straps to be "snug" to do the best job.
I'm thinking that on hot summer days, people are not going to want straps tight across their chest while breathing hard during an event. Or maybe I was the only one breathing that hard when I raced???
That's my opinion anyway.
Keith
Averill Racing Stuff, Inc.
248-585-9139
http://www.racing-stuff.com
Veefan
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by Veefan »

If you want to be uncomfortable and have zero side crash protection, buy a Hans.

If you also want good side crash protection and comfort buy a Simpson Hybrid Pro Rage.

With a Hans you're locked into a seating position, with the Simpson products they can be adjusted to different seating positions. One restraint fits all seating positions and car types.

"I'm thinking that on hot summer days, people are not going to want straps tight across their chest"
You actually want straps, it keeps the device in place, Hans relies on the seat belts to hold it in place... belts slip off in an angular crash and you have nothing...

check out this video, Hans is on the left, right is another device.
http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Video/SFIBoth.mpg
SR Racing
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by SR Racing »

We sell both the HANS and the Pro-Hybrid. I would not trust this video for your purchase. The HANS installation in this video appears to be incorrect and is using the 3" belts. Which is worst case, but acceptable. The video appears to have been made by a company selling a $199 non approved device. Of the many dozen units we have sold I would say that about 3:1 the HANS is preferred for comfort (and/or presumed safety by the buyer.) I have no doubt that the Pro-Hybrid is a good unit, but don't make your decision on this video. Check out the lack of H&N injuries in the last few years with the vast majority of pro (IRL, CART, NASCAR, etc) using the HANS. I would definately choose either the HANS or PRO-Hybrid, based upon YOUR personal comfort alone. Either are adequate for your safety.
fvracer27
Posts: 247
Joined: October 25th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by fvracer27 »

Veefan wrote:If you want to be uncomfortable and have zero side crash protection, buy a Hans.

If you also want good side crash protection and comfort buy a Simpson Hybrid Pro Rage.

With a Hans you're locked into a seating position, with the Simpson products they can be adjusted to different seating positions. One restraint fits all seating positions and car types.

"I'm thinking that on hot summer days, people are not going to want straps tight across their chest"
You actually want straps, it keeps the device in place, Hans relies on the seat belts to hold it in place... belts slip off in an angular crash and you have nothing...

check out this video, Hans is on the left, right is another device.
http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Video/SFIBoth.mpg
That video is useless and not correct

Look at the video close the hans belts are way to far apart. has to be about 3" more than the other clip not to mention that has to be the worst way to intall belts just wrapped around a tube without anything to keep them in place.

If the device is fitted properly and the belts are installed correctly you can not even tell that you have a hans on at least this is my experience. John you run a D13 correct? I'm not sure how you sit in the car but most D13 have about 1/2 on each side between the helmet and the bar I'm willing to bet there is more side give in the device than that so it would not even matter. In a side impact I would be more worried about something entering the cockpit than your head moving 1/2.
Mark Filip
NER #27
Womer EV-3
tiagosantos
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by tiagosantos »

Don - are you Don Lines from up here in BC, by any chance? :)

If so, I'd talk to Frank at Driver's Edge. He only sells the Hans, but you can probably ask him to try one on in your car and see how you feel. I have a Hans, I don't even notice it's there while driving. There are some instructions that need to be followed as far as mounting the shoulder belts, but it's all pretty simple stuff, really. Hell, if I can do it..

There is a small chance that you would need to significantly modify your car to properly fit a Hans device, but I doubt it. Anyway, I think it's important to have SOMETHING, I believe the Hans keeps me plenty safe - i.e., a crash big enough to put the neck forces over what the Hans protects against, even in angular crashes, would probably kill me from other injuries. I haven't looked much into the other devices with straps, but it really didn't look as convenient to me.. But like I said, I'm sure they all work. If you are here in BC, I'd try the Hans just because you could try it and get it locally for pretty much the same price as in the US. Then if that doesn't feel right, go for the strappy thing!
jpetillo
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by jpetillo »

I have run a 30 degree HANS in a Speedsport and Caracal D clone. The seating position in the Caracal D is much more reclined, but nothing like a D13, for example.

About a side impact, I was slammed into a wall hard some years ago with the HANS (took out all four corners of the car), and I remember as I was heading towards the wall thinking that this was going to be bad because the HANS was not designed for that. Both right tires hit at the same time. But, since there was so much forward momentum when I impacted into the wall, the resultant impact force direction seemed more like 45 degrees (was probably less based on speed) and the HANS caught my head. I remember feeling the tug after my head started going over, but it didn't get to move far before it caught, and then all was well. For me it did a great job in a side impact that still had some forward momentum. John
Veefan
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Joined: August 14th, 2007, 9:22 pm

Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by Veefan »

John, if that crash was a few years ago at NHMS in the rain, your comment "I was slammed into a wall hard" is an understatement you were "pushed hard " by someone trying to win the race on the first lap in the RAIN. I had a birds eye view from several car lengths back. The Hans did it's job in your case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwIdUkLMdRU

History on the Hans product development
"The device was designed in the early 1980s by Dr. Robert Hubbard, a professor of biomechanical engineering at Michigan State University. After talking to his brother-in-law, road-racer Jim Downing, after the death of one of their mutual friends, Patrick Jacquemart who was killed in IMSA testing accident at Mid-Ohio, when his Renault Le Car struck a sandbank leaving him dead on arrival with head injuries, it was decided that some sort of protection was required to help prevent injuries from sudden stops, especially during accidents. A major cause of death amongst drivers during races was through violent head movements, where the body remains in place because of the seat belts but the momentum keeps the head moving forwards, causing a Basilar skull fracture resulting in serious injury or immediate death.

As per HANS Performance Products
"The best side impact performance is achieved with an SFI or FIA approved
head and neck restraint, a good harness system, seats that have hip and
shoulder support, and a lateral head support system. The latter can be built
into the seat or achieved using special side nets."

Formula Vees aren't built that way...

The bottom line is comfort and you need to see what works for you in your car. I had a Hans and it didn't work for me in my Womer or Lynx. I sold it and use a Simpson Hybrid Pro Rage it's more comfortable and fits well in both my D-13 and tin top car.
problemchild
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by problemchild »

racing stuff wrote:
I'm thinking that on hot summer days, people are not going to want straps tight across their chest while breathing hard during an event. .
Say what? Like having a rigid foot-square plastic/composite frame wrapped around our necks and strapped down to our chests is going to be preferable to a harness? :shock:

Unfortunately, for many of us big guys with short necks ..... crammed into little cars, this issue stopped being about "safest" a long time ago. It is merely about finding some device, any device, that will allow us to meet the new rule and still be able to drive our race cars. I've owned a defender, then a HANS, and have not been able to drive any of 4 race cars with either. I have a Hybrid coming to try. I'm hoping that it is as accommodating as people are saying. Otherwise .... This HNR rule will have saved my life by ending my driving. Probably not a bad idea, but not really the plan. :lol:
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
Rolling Stone
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by Rolling Stone »

We would ALL say the same thing from Heaven (or hell :>) or from a wheelchair after a racing accident.....I wish I had bought a Head restraint system!!!I was thinking about it for ages,but I always thought it would be the other guy not me:>)I have a HANS,just went in the store,one left so I tried it on with my helmet,bought it they fitted it to helmet:>)Side protection worries?I have side bars either side of my head on my Mysterian M2..but after all Racing is dangerous :shock: :mrgreen: As most posts in here say,go with what suits you/car...but GO!!!
fvracer27
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by fvracer27 »

problemchild wrote: Unfortunately, for many of us big guys with short necks ..... crammed into little cars, this issue stopped being about "safest" a long time ago. It is merely about finding some device, any device, that will allow us to meet the new rule and still be able to drive our race cars. I've owned a defender, then a HANS, and have not been able to drive any of 4 race cars with either. I have a Hybrid coming to try. I'm hoping that it is as accommodating as people are saying. Otherwise .... This HNR rule will have saved my life by ending my driving. Probably not a bad idea, but not really the plan. :lol:
Greg for us big guys the Defender is way to thick unless you want to pop your head off. The Hans just take the pads off and the device sits much lower, Hans was designed to run without the pads they only put pads for the skinny guys :mrgreen:

I have enought trouble getting in my suit never mind tying myself in a bow :mrgreen:

hope is works for you it sucks being uncomfortale
Mark Filip
NER #27
Womer EV-3
problemchild
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by problemchild »

fvracer27 wrote:
problemchild wrote: hope is works for you it sucks being uncomfortale
It is not about being comfortable. With a Defender, the lowest I could get my head .... I was looking at Venus. With the HANS, I could just see the top of the strg wheel but not read the dash. It was nothing to do with the cables or behind the head ... it was all about structure sitting on my chest preventing my head/helmet from coming down. This was in a FF. I did one session without being able to see the dash or change gears. With the Mysterian and Womer, I never got past trying sitting in the car.

Big guys with short necks need to get on this issue and not assume they can just buy one and go. This new rule has the potential to retire a lot of drivers. I hope the Hybrid will be the answer for me.
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
fvracer27
Posts: 247
Joined: October 25th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by fvracer27 »

problemchild wrote:
fvracer27 wrote:
problemchild wrote: hope is works for you it sucks being uncomfortale
It is not about being comfortable. With a Defender, the lowest I could get my head .... I was looking at Venus. With the HANS, I could just see the top of the strg wheel but not read the dash. It was nothing to do with the cables or behind the head ... it was all about structure sitting on my chest preventing my head/helmet from coming down. This was in a FF. I did one session without being able to see the dash or change gears. With the Mysterian and Womer, I never got past trying sitting in the car.

Big guys with short necks need to get on this issue and not assume they can just buy one and go. This new rule has the potential to retire a lot of drivers. I hope the Hybrid will be the answer for me.

were you using a 30? I purchase a 30 and had the same problem in hence I exchanged for a 40 the proper angle after measuring for myself rather than going off someone elses experience. 40 sloved every problem I had because my chest is big and the 30 would not lay down on my chest as it should which made me have a great view of the clouds.
Last edited by fvracer27 on December 13th, 2011, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Filip
NER #27
Womer EV-3
wroché29
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by wroché29 »

Greg;

Please post a follow-up when you try the Hybrid.

Thanks
Bill Roché
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Ed Womer
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by Ed Womer »

Bill,

Dean Curtis, Roger and Rick Shields all bought the Simpson hybrid at the runoffs since it was on sale. I don't think any of them tried driving with it at the runoffs. The rep did come down and fit it to them in the car.

Ed
VORT94
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Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by VORT94 »

To FVRACER27 When you traded your 30 for a 40 I assume you had to buy the more expensive Pro model??
Thanks
fvracer27
Posts: 247
Joined: October 25th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Re: Head & neck restraint systems

Post by fvracer27 »

VORT94 wrote:To FVRACER27 When you traded your 30 for a 40 I assume you had to buy the more expensive Pro model??
Thanks
Yes I had to pay the extra but they did give me full credit for the 30 that I used 4 or 5 times. I like most did not want to spend the big Money of the pro model but Its what I needed.
Mark Filip
NER #27
Womer EV-3
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