Front torsion spring question

[BLS]

A new suprise. As I continue tearing down the front end and cleaning everything, I finally got around to removing the roll bar and springs tonight. I had not payed much attention to the spring when I removed the trailing arms. When I go to remove it, first thing I notice is the individual leaves, not brazed together on the ends as I recall. Pulled the leaves out, it is a full set. My old memory begins working. The first set I had was, I think, four leaves with filler pieces brazed together at each end and in the center. I now remember experimenting with different combinations. Apparently I liked the stiffer front as that is what is in there. It had to be in place before the '78 runoffs as I know I did not take it apart again afterwards. We are talking about a "Z" bar car here, not zero roll.

OK, so now for my question. What do you have in yours? What do you recommend? I know different cars might respond to different spring rates but I figure most zero roll cars are pretty similar. I also understand different drivers may like a different setup. I also see "heavy duty" spring sets are available that might allow for even more tailoring. I'd like to make up at least two sets to test with.

I need a good starting point. Also, is it normal to braze the ends together with filler pieces like my original? I may be able to find the original. More digging through Dad's garage...

Oh, the ride height was correct. Torsion arms level or slightly down. Maybe the springs were "bent" a little. Not really sure.

Thanks,
Barry

[FV80]

Barry,
Back in '78, we were not allowed to modify the spring pack - although many of them got "bent, due to off road excursions". We can now modify the spring pack any way we want and we can also install a ride height adjuster. Most are going with the adjusters to set the desired ride height. How many springs stay in the pack is a personal preference and the type of shock (and valving if adjustable) is all over the map, as is the number of springs in the pack. Brazing the ends together makes it easier to assemble and is now "allowed", but I haven't done it ... just because I am lazy and I don't take that stuff out very often. I like a reasonably free front end, but haven't really tried a full spring pack in recent years. The 'trend' is toward stiffer suspension on both ends, but there's plenty out there in all configurations.

I'd suggest you install a ride height adjuster and not worry about the spring pack until you get used to the car again. A full pack will do a pretty good job, but might take a stiffer shock. A lot of us are CHEAP SKATES and use steering dampers instead of "real" shocks. There are at least 3 sizes of steering dampers made for VW's and who knows how many other options out there made for all kinds of other things. You just have to pick something that works for you and your car ... and that will likely change as you get more seat time.

If you are leaving the car as a Z bar, you might get better feedback from some of the Vintage guys as I haven't seen a competitive Z bar car at nationals in 20 years. Not necessarily because they CAN'T be competitive, but no Z bar cars have been BUILT in well over 20 years AFAIK. There are a number of pull rod type rear suspensions out there that are not "zero" roll - but not Z bar (that I'm aware of). Everyone's goal is to NOT have 2 shocks out in the air stream ... or even ONE.
YMMV,
Steve, FV80

[BLS]

Steve, thanks very much for the information. What car is this for? It's a good question. I am planning that this front end build would be for a zero roll car, new or used. It might be a spare if I purchase a car with a good front beam. Maybe if the economy continues to tank it will be placed back on the Zink for vintage. I hope it is going on a new (to me at least) car reasonably modern in design. In any event it is something that I can work on for the moment while I wait to see what next year shapes up to be. I hope to have some economic answers in the next couple months. If I decide to use the old Zink for a starter in SCCA, I would add zero roll just for the experience.

I'm pretty sure you were allowed to use any number of leaves back in the the 70's as I recall having fewer at one point. I think, but am not sure, that Rollin made a set for me initially, could have been Zink though. It could have been on my friends car as I often worked on it before I started racing. Memory is a bit sketchy, but as I pull the thing apart I do remember some things.

I plan on adding the ride height adjustment. I have a spare bare beam that I will add it to and put all the parts back on.

After I finish with the front beam I'll tear down the rear axles/gearbox and try to get it ready. Then when I do get a car or decide to use the Zink I'll have only the engine to worry with, and that will definetly be in the hands of the pro's.


Thanks Again,
Barry

[brian]

A z bar car is much softer on the front than a zero roll. The front spring assists in controlling roll. Steve's right on regarding shocks. Back in the day, a z-bar car could actually run without a shock, but not today on the zero roll cars.

[FV80]

...I'm pretty sure you were allowed to use any number of leaves back in the the 70's

Barry- sorry, but I can ASSURE you that the rules did not "ALLOW" any modification of the spring pack back then. Was it being done anyway? no doubt yes .. but still not technically "legal".
Steve, FV80

[BLS]

Steve, since I have a full set, it could just be faulty memory. Or, maybe I had less than a full set at one time and didn't realize it was illegal.

I've cleaned up the ones I have and there is a slight set to them. Doesn't look too bad. I think I have a handle on this and should be able to have a good front to start with. I'll get a new set to start with and go from there.

I did use steering dampers for shocks and will probably start with those. VW transporter as I recall.

Brian, thanks for the info. I knew the zero roll would dictate a little different front set up, just not sure how much.

Dietmar was kind enough to speak with me regarding this stuff as well. Much appreciated.

One last question: How much of a droop limit is usual with the droop limiters on the front? I'll make it adjustable, but what is a good starting point?

Thanks,
Barry