Transaxle rebuilds..

[tiagosantos]

Well, 25.4mm! But I know metric is much too confusing for this crowd, just trying to make it easier on you guys

Since I'm Portuguese, it should really be about 1.5 moustaches.

[Rolling Stone]

Well, 25.4mm! But I know metric is much too confusing for this crowd, just trying to make it easier on you guys

Since I'm Portuguese, it should really be about 1.5 moustaches.

Good job its not a Mustang, then it would be 2 beards

[CitationFV21]

20W50 synthetic motorcycle oil, filled to an inch or so below the bottom of the hole..

Okay, in order to revisit a debate, I have heard everything from automatic transmission oil to proper gear oil and everything in the middle.

With light weight synthetic gear oil on the market, what advantage is anything to the "average" FV driver, and what damage can be done to the R & P from oils without EP wear additives - will galling soon result in more friction that gained by the lighter oil?

ChrisZ

[tiagosantos]

The motorcycle oil is supposedly not much different from proper gear oil, since it's formulated to run in motorcycle tranmissions.. In my case, just a bit cheaper than redline stuff!

[FV80]

20W50 synthetic motorcycle oil, filled to an inch or so below the bottom of the hole..

Okay, in order to revisit a debate, I have heard everything from automatic transmission oil to proper gear oil and everything in the middle.

With light weight synthetic gear oil on the market, what advantage is anything to the "average" FV driver, and what damage can be done to the R & P from oils without EP wear additives - will galling soon result in more friction that gained by the lighter oil?

ChrisZ

In MY experience, the most critical parts in the transmission are the axle paddles/fulcrum plates/side gears. I have tried essentially EVERY oil out there on the market. No matter WHAT oil you use, you will likely have trouble in that center section at some point or another. The faster you go, the more trouble you have - the more rear camber you run, the more trouble you have. You can do whatever you want, but I opt to run a mixture of 75/90W and 85/140W (Lucas) - both synthetic and both have EP additives, and I add some of that INCREDIBLY expensive Power Up NNL 690G. Even at that, I still have trouble, but not nearly as much as I used to. I have never seen any indication that I run slower as a result of the heavier oils - even on the first lap when it's cold outside. The oil seems to heat up as fast as the driver

ANY time you have a shunt involving the rear axle in any way, I recommend pulling the axle tubes off and checking all those center parts. If the axle gets driven into the side gear and splits it, it will drag on the carrier, generate heat, slow you down, consume the fulcrum plates and axles and eventually destroy the carrier itself (and you really don't want to have to replace THAT!). If you can keep those center pieces nice, shiny, and slickery, the rest of the trannie will likely last you for many YEARS.

BTW - I know of NO motorcycle (or any at all for that matter) transmissions that have this center section scenario. All others have been replaced by CV joints or similar - that are external to the trans and therefore can't DESTROY the trans from internally generated heat.
YMMV,
Steve, FV80

[hardingfv32-1]

Fact: Thinner gear oil creates less friction.

You should use the thinnest gear oil you can find. Generally speaking that would be the motor oil equivalent of 0-20W.

As Steve said, axle pad is where you judge how the oil film is holding up. I have not seen anything alarming with the axle paddles using Redline Superlight.

Axle paddle wear could be less now that the latest rear tires use much less rear camber.

In the end it is a maintenance compromise vs performance that is up to you.

Brian

[FV80]

Fact: Thinner gear oil creates less friction.
You should use the thinnest gear oil you can find. ...In the end it is a maintenance compromise vs performance that is up to you.
Brian

I disagree... you should use the thinnest oil you can find THAT DOES THE JOB ADEQUATELY for you. It depends on just how many times you want to take the axles off and how many axles you have lying around or can get. After running through some 20 axles/side gear sets, I opt for thicker oil. As Brian says - the choice is yours. As you approach sitting on the pole and winning the Runoffs, you MIGHT choose to go with a thinner oil (I do NOT choose to do so), but it's up to you.

Steve, FV80

[brian]

Not to muddy up the water, but clearance of the paddles and fulcrum plates is critical. Excessive clearance will cause the paddle to go over center and decrease the contact area on the fulcrum plate and increase the likely hood of gauling. Factory spec is .004 to .024. If it is greater, oversize fulcrum plates are available. Also available are grooved plates that facilitate oiling but don't confuse them with the oversize versions since they're grooved as well.

[tiagosantos]

I still haven't had time to take the transaxle apart, and with time running short, I'm not sure I'll end up doing before the August race. Busy at work, etc.. But my car has been through it's share of off roading and shunts, so I wouldn't be surprised to find some damage back there. At this point, I'm torn between not caring about any potential HP loss and worrying about further damage.

I'm confident that I could take it apart and put it back together quickly, but depending on what I find, I might not have time to get new parts..

[FV80]

Tiago,
Things may be different in your part of the world, but I always figured that the cost to REGISTER FOR, and GET TO/FROM a race outweighs most other costs ... including SPARES. You should certainly have a spare axle, axle tube, drum (front and rear), backing plate (front and rear), wheel/tire, tie rod (even if it has to be worked on to install), and possibly a rear suspension "trailing arm" (whether it's really leading or trailing), as well as a significant set of TOOLS with you at every event. (Things you don't have, can usually be borrowed or bought from "competitors" at the track, but that doesn't help you at home)

When I spend 8 hours towing TO an event - the fuel to get there - the registration fee - and the fuel and time to get home, I have to consider what it might cost to have a spare or 2 with me. Maybe your tows are much shorter and maybe your entry fees are much lower, but $100 - $200 to have the spare parts to keep me in the event (after I've already PAID those other costs) is well worth it to me .. and that's for a single event. Hopefully, the spares will last you several events (or maybe FOREVER <G> and the amortization costs go to ZERO).

I also figure that .. if I have the parts on hand at the track, and
I'm already there, and
I have to/need to fix it anyway at some point, and
I don't have anything better to do at the track if I'm broken, and
I have the tools I need, and
there's often HELP available, and
my barmaid (wife) can keep me in 'spirits' <G>, and .....

Well, you can see the progression.
I've seen a LOT of guys/gals spend $700 on the 'get to/from', 'register for'. 'stay' (motel?), expenses and get NOTHING out of the weekend but a lap or 2. From my perspective, being prepared for "the event" includes spares and 'fix it at the track if possible' plans in place. If you have those spares "in the trailer", it also covers the situation you are in. Home maintenance. If you find a problem getting ready for the weekend, you already HAVE the spare on hand to fix it and you don't miss the weekend.

I know this doesn't help you in the moment with the weekend already imminent, but it's something to think about if you want to race on a regular basis.
I know that I have had over 30 years to acquire my spares, but I wish I had had the knowledge and intelligence to have those spares earlier in my "career". I would have "LOST" a lot fewer weekends.
As for your last comments. Potential HP loss is not a big deal, but REST ASSURED, if you do have trouble in the center section, it will only get worse as you race. And it's a pretty short path to damaging other $$parts$$ - unfortunately, this is my experience talking ...
As usual, YMMV
Steve, FV80

[tiagosantos]

Steve - it all makes perfect sense I completely agree and have bought lots of spares over the past year, some of them I've already needed, some of them I probably won't use for years! I plan to slowly keep building up the spares collection, but there are a couple reasons why I don't stock a complete set of everything I could possibly need:

1) For this year, I'm only racing at the 'local' track. It's a 1 hour tow each way, entry fees are $240 for the whole weekend.. It still sucks when something goes wrong, but definitely not as bad..

2) I'm towing a crappy open trailer with my volvo wagon As big as the cargo area is on this thing, it can only take so much.. For a number or reasons, I don't have a tire rack on the trailer, so tires/wheels take up considerable room in the wagon. Toolbox, tent, gas jugs, jack, jumper battery and as many spares as I can fit in there!

3) I'm incredibly lucky that our local races have 10-12 vees at every event, and that everyone has so far gone to great lengths to help me out when I needed.. I've considered more than once skipping weekends to save $$ to buy more parts or upgrade the trailer or buy a proper tow vehicle or whatever, but they won't let me They insist on me getting the car together and showing up, going out of their way to make it happen sometimes. I know and appreciate that my FRIENDS would rather let me use their spares if it comes to that, than stay at home. I can't express how thankful I feel for this.

The reasons you posted are pretty much why I'm not planning to run SCCA weekends in the near future.. I'd love to run with the rest of the West Coast guys, but I'd need a considerable investment just to be ready for a race 8 hours away. Like you said, I'd want to have a spare of just about everything, good spare motor, a decent trailer and a reliable tow vehicle. I'm working on all that, but not just yet

Lastly.. My racing budget just got a bit of a jolt a couple weeks ago when my new engine died a lot sooner than I expected.. So I've already decided that I'll skip the last few races of the year to help offset the cost of that.. And I'm counting beans to see if I can make it to one more race (our special annual FV only race)!

[FV80]

Tiago,
I can certainly understand. Been there - done that . Just offering my experience, but I do remember that "it's different" when you are just starting out. It is a wonderful class where you can rely on your "classmates" to provide you (at least temporarily) with the parts (and help) you need to keep you on track. At long last, I have the opportunity to BE that provider fairly often and it's my way of paying back the class for those who loaned/rented/sold parts & stuff to me in the past - even though many of those that helped me are now long gone.
I hope you can make things work to get that last event... and that your trannie holds up to the abuse that it has (as have MOST FV gearboxes) experienced .

Steve, FV80