Rear axle bearing seals

[jstoezel]

Hi:

Last year I re-shimmed my transmission and replaced all the axle seals. I did it with another racer from the club and he mentioned that I should not really replace the rear axle bearing seal, as they are difficult to get in (can be damaged while fitting in the bearing housing) and never go bad. These are the thick black rubber seals that have to be fitted at the bottom of the bearing housing.

This year I got my transmission rebuilt and again will have to install the axles etc.

I haven't removed the "old" bearing seal from the housing just yet. I do have a new seal kit though. Do you recommend changing the seals for every install? Any tips to make the process easier/safer?

Jean

[Veefan]

If you're refering to #7, some people might feel it's over kill, but anytime you disassemble the housing, I'd change the seals. The kits go for $2.50 per side... and they are really not that hard to install.

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[brian]

The must be pressed in carefully, using a hammer will most likely damage them. Make sure your axles are straight and the seals will last forever. Checking axles requires live centers and a dial gauge since a run out of .010 will really wobble the drum. Finally, make sure the seal race, the sleeve that sits inside the seal on the axle, is not grooved out with wear. Visually check the seal to make sure it's flat, true and smooth. Any nicks in the seating surface will cause leakage. Don't forget these seals ran for 10 of thousands of miles on the streets and you can buy gaskets, o-rings separately.

[JimR]

Here is a trick that I have used for long time on seating these seals using the hammer and tap method. I use an old front bearing race and use the flat side to tap the seal into the housing until its flush. You then flip the race over which is a perfect fit to the outer edge of the seal and tap the seal in the rest of the way. Simple track side or garage install without a press.

[jstoezel]

Alright will replace then. How about the new bearings, should I get the side covers off? Last year I did not get the side covers off. I was told these bearings come pre-greased and the side covers can stay on. I also thought that by leaving the side covers it would limit the likelihood of any oil leak. I didn't get any leak all last summer, but I also noticed there was no grease left in the bearings when I checked them at the end of the season.

It looks like transmission oil will leak through the covers anyways (since it washed off the grease), but I've also noticed the new bearings are a bit more "sticky" with the built in grease they come with.

So should I remove the side covers this year? What do you guys typically do?

Jean

[Dave]

If your tranny builder is telling you to grease the bearings or they come pre-greased , GET A NEW TRANNY BUILDER! Or please come race in the upper mid west.

Dave

[jstoezel]

The bearing shop said that, I didn't ask the transmission rebuilder.

If your tranny builder is telling you to grease the bearings or they come pre-greased , GET A NEW TRANNY BUILDER! Or please come race in the upper mid west.

Dave

[jstoezel]

I've got another question, about the fulcrum plates this time. My transmission builder is at the track this week-end and I was hoping somebody from the forum could help so I can go ahead with this.

Last year I ran into some issues while re-shimming the transaxle. I followed the instructions in the service manual, shimmed the axle tubes first to remove any in/out play while maintaining good up/down mobility of the axle tubes. Then I installed the brake plates, spacers, seals, wheel bearings and torqued the drum nuts. Once the drum nut was torqued I would loose all up/down mobility in the axle tube (axle tube was just solid, unmovable). Eventually I got it to work by shimming the axle tubes so they would have a bit of in/out play, and that play would go away once I would torque the drum nut.

Instead, is it possible to install the brake plates, bearings and torque the drum nut, then shim the fulcrum plates accordingly?

Also one thing I've noticed this year is that I find it difficult for the fulcrum plates to stay on each side of the axle end. They tend to move away to the back of the cup - and then the axle looses all up/down mobility. Anything to worry about here? Or any technique to prevent this from happening?

Jean

[Dave]

Now that is a place where you can add a small dab of grease. I used Red Line. Keep the axle pushed in, as the fulcrum plate will slip behind the axle and out of place causing your problem.

Dave

[brian]

It appears that you're talking about two procedures one for the axle and one for the tube.

I install the axle with the side gear and fulcrum plates together. Grease everything well and use your finger from the backside of the side gear to hold the fulcrum plates in place and stick the entire assy into the tranny. There are over sized fulcrum plates but their use is very rare. Install the spacer and snap ring. Check and see if the spacer is free to move but the side gear should not slide in and out. Don't pull on the axle.

I preset the tube clearance prior to installing the axle. The number of gaskets are designed to set the clearance. Pregrease the bells and daisy and install some gaskets. Usually 2 or 3 will do the trick. Tighten as least 4 of the bolts and check. The tube should move with friction but with no side play. Any in or out movement will cause damage and leakage.

[FV80]

Jean,
It sounds to me like you are letting the axle slide far enough out to allow the fulcrum plates to get behind it. You have to be VERY careful to keep that from happening. A decent load of grease on the fulcrum plates and paddles should minimize the issue, but you still have to be careful. Tightening the axle nut should have NO effect on the free play of the tube - if it does, it's a pretty sure thing that at least 1 fulcrum plate is behind the axle in the side gear. I like a slight bit of drag on my tubes - maybe enough to just barely hold the tube in place with no brakes or anything on the end - but go looser if needed - not tighter.

Before you load the suspension, you should be able to freely move the axle through its ANGULAR travel, while assuring that it stays pushed IN to the side gear - although you still need to be mindful of the fulcrum plate orientation. If you don't have any grease in there, the fulcrum plate(s) will slip behind that axle in a HEARTBEAT - just to P you off . The length of the axle tube and the bearing housing at the end of the tube is what holds the axle at the proper distance away from the deep end of the side gear so that there is no contact in the in/out direction.

Steve, FV80

[jstoezel]

Hi:

Thanks for the replies. Yes it looks like the fulcrum plates kept on sliding behind the axle. Adding (thicker) grease took care of this - and made the process less frustrating.

The transaxle is finally back together, hopefully it won't leak. I think the axle tubes are getting a bit banged up, I noticed the plates don't look very flat anymore... Would this be a compatible replacement part: http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?P ... %2D066%2DE
It's not the right year, but at the same time that's the only tube assembly I could find.

I re-shimmed the transaxle last year and eventually one side leaked, enough to make a mess in the pit area. Is there anything you recommend to do as a quick fix (at the track) to limit a leak?

Jean

[FV80]

Jean,
Those axle tubes from CIP1 *WILL* "work", but they are the wrong length. You have to press off the wheel end flange, cut the tube to length and press it back on. Most of the vendors at the top of this page can sell you the correct parts - both tubes and axles - it will save you a lot of work.
Steve, FV80

[hardingfv32-1]

I think it is the end flange casting that is different. You should be able to use your old ones IF you have a press.

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1695

Brian

[brian]

I always check the side cover, we call it the hat, to make sure it's flat and true. Often the holes will have a bit of a crown from over tightening. I use a hammner to flatten around the holes. Make sure the lip around the bell is consistent and not stretched out. A hard landing can really bugger up the hat. A small bead of silicone around that bead is all that is usually needed to seal it up.

[SR Racing]

>>http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1695<<

CB doesn't pay to advetise here and doesn't support FV in any way. We carry new axles and ends that are correct for FV and they are less expensive than CB. I suspect other supporting vendors of this site do also.