"skid" plates

[tiagosantos]

Ok, this was a bit of a toss up between the novice and the tech forum. Tech/rules won in the end as it is firstly a question about legality and only second about stupidity.

So my oil sump is maybe a bit too deep, the oil plug sticks out about 1/2" under the frame rails.. I don't think anyone would care, but I do indulge in cutting over curbs whenever I can, so it may be a good idea to fix it. So I bought one of the fancy aluminum 1.5qt sumps, that is shallower.. But too long by about 1/4", hits the frame where the bellhousing bolts up. Argh.

So I can either pay someone to cut up the new sump and weld it back together shorter (if it's even possible..) or figure something else out. My idea (remember, legality/safety first, stupidity second! hehe..) is to stick a 1/2" steel plate on either side, under the frame rails. Any thoughts as to why this may be a horrible idea? Not sure yet how I'd attach the steel bars to the frame either.. Countersunk rivets..? Oh, I should also add that by my estimates, I'm still at least 10-15lbs underweight, so this would probably bring me right up to legal weight..

Or I could find a shorter sump, but I'd be worried to run even less oil capacity than I have right now.

[Bob Posner]

Tiago I put over 300 races on that car before you got it and only once found the sump nut scuffed. Not an issue.

[tiagosantos]

Howdy Bob

I think the sump on the "new" engine is deeper.. I thought about checking the old engine's sump and transferring it over, but.. Well, lets just say the engine's on the ground over a wooden frame and it's not going anywhere for a while!

Do you remember it sticking out that much under the car? If so, yup, that's good enough for me

[Bob Posner]

When I used an aluminum tray under the engine the sump nut would bow out the tray slightly when dzused in place. If the sump projects further than that,the sump on your engine is deeper. I never had problems with the shorter sump. If you change to a shorter sump,adjust your pickup length. Use a slash cut just above the sump bottom and make sure you have a screen in place to catch any bits before they can be sucked up.

[tiagosantos]

Yup, sounds like this one is deeper then. I might try to recruit a couple buddies and see if I can figure out a way of rescuing the sump from the old engine..

[FV80]

Tiago,
Despite the fact that Bob never lost an engine, *I* would STRONGLY suggest that you follow your initial thoughts and PROTECT THAT SUMP. It doesn't happen often, but how many times do you really WANT it to happen? If you hit the curbs, drive near the limit, etc ... you are GOING to eventually slide a curb up inside your frame rails in the rear - at least a bit (as it happens, I did it my last race at Atlanta). I think your idea of 1/2" heavy wall tubing beneath the frame on both side of the engine is a reasonable idea (I would WELD it!). I would also suggest that you back it up with an additional frame member a couple or 3 inches in FRONT of the sump (rail to rail- side to side). You are (generally) traveling forward and if you are going to hit something, the front of the frame will likely encounter it first. The fact that you need ballast is a plus and it just can't get any lower than the bottom of the frame rail.

I designed my car to have the frame rails be about 1/2" lower than the bottom of the sump .. and there IS a cross bar at the front of the engine. I also add SKID PLATES (1/4" steel) on both sides of the frame in several places from front to rear... and they get WORN frequently. I've even had to replace a couple on my last car.

Personally, I do EVERYTHING I can think of to protect the (considerably expensive) engine in my race car. I think it is just prudent to do so.
FWIW,
Steve, FV80

[brian]

Like Steve, I prefer to protect the sump with the frame rails but have had issues anyway. Be very careful if you run an aluminum sump since the drain plug can be blown right out of the sump if rubbed hard enough. Do it, been there. My sumps are made in steel and I have an extra 1" of pipe, the same width of the sump, welded to the bottom to protect the drain plug.

[tiagosantos]

Alright, thanks everyone. I don't think welding anything to the frame is in the cards (at least in the next week and a half before the first race!) and since no one seemed terribly excited about my rivet idea I'll try to figure out a way of swapping the old sump to the new engine..

What's a good spot to hoist an engine up from? ratchet straps around the heads? Crank pulley?.. Is there a good spot at all?

[Dietmar]

Good place to hoist an engine?
Try making four plates that fit over the exhaust studs and 6" long.

Top of the plate gets a 5/16" or 3/8" hole for a nut and bolt attached to a length of chain. Chain is long enough to go from #1 to # 3 exhaust and another chain from #2 to # 4 exhaust. Grab the two chains in the middle with your "hoist" and you should have no problems. Make the chain long enough and you can even pull the engine with a manifold attached ( although I like to remove them first)

Hope this helps

Dietmar

[tiagosantos]

So I'd be lifting the engine by the exhaust studs? (Not doubting, just making sure I got it right..)

[FV80]

When I pull my engine by myself (most of the time) in the shop, I use about a 3 foot length of nylon ROPE (3/8" or so - reasonably heavy). I put an eyehook on one end and link it through the hole in the top of the case near the trans - I put a simple LOOP in the other end and loop it over the front pulley. Holds the engine just fine - cheap and the rope doesn't slide very easily on the hook that is on the end of my hoist. I can adjust it to various positions during the removal/installation process and it pretty much stays where I put it. MUCH easier than 4 chain hooks and exhaust plates ... at least for me

Steve, FV80

[Dietmar]

exhaust studs ? That is correct.

Dietmar

[jpetillo]

What's a good spot to hoist an engine up from? ratchet straps around the heads?

I use your straps around the heads idea. I use the standard adjustable tie downs (without the ratchet). Simple to do, very stable, adjustable so you can tilt the engine if you need to, and plenty strong. Just make sure you slip them up and over the push rod tubes. John

[sabre1]

Yes, those large aluminum sumps can be a problem. Depending on how much interference there is, you can grind off a small amount of material, say 1/8" or so without a problem or you can cut off a larger amount and have a piece of aluminum welded on.

-Jim

[tiagosantos]

Yeah grinding ain't going to work on this one, I think I'd need about 1/4" taken off.. I thought about cutting and welding a plate, but haven't had time to show it to someone who could weld!

I measured it up before ordering and thought it would fit, but didn't measure from the center point.. I have enough room under the engine, just not centered on the sump!

[FV80]

Tiago,
Although I RECOMMEND welding any lower frame (sump protection) extensions - you can certainly BOLT some in - at least temporarily. That might give you some time to race while you come up with a better option.
Steve, FV80