Still learning - coil failure - curse

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CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by CitationFV21 »

Just when you thought you had it figured out.

I was working on my car at the NHMS regional, and ran the engine and shut it off using the kill switch. Forgot to hit the ignition switch, so when I turned the master on later, I forgot the ignition was on (about 5 minutes??). When I found it, I started it up to see if I fried the points. Car started right up, ran fine. Went to False grid - still fine. Start pace lap - everything go. Just as we came around for the start, the car shut off. Would not start. Push it back to paddock, (missing race of course) find coil is bad.

Now, what should I have done?
1. Before starting engine, check if points were closed. If they were, points were probably damaged and the coil over heated. Change both.
2. If they were open and the coil cool, probably very lucky.

I figure 1 was my case.

Now why it decided to wait until 7/8 around on the pace lap brings me to the curse.

12 years ago, I ran this shortbox at this track, at a National. Car ran fine until 3/4 around on the pace lap for the Sunday race, when a piston decided to go south - never saw the green flag.

Flash ahead to this weekend. The first time this gearbox has been in the car in 12 years. Same track - Sunday afternoon - 7/8 around pace lap and coil fails - never saw the green flag. Coincidence? I think the tranny is cursed. If you ask me why I am listed as DNS for the race - I will tell you - gearbox. :lol:

ChrisZ
dd46637
Posts: 135
Joined: December 24th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by dd46637 »

I had a coil give up in the middle of a practice like that. Running fine and then poof.

You do however have a wiring problen in that the Kill switch did not turn off all the electrical which is required. :shock:
jpetillo
Posts: 759
Joined: August 26th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by jpetillo »

I think you may have misread his post. He mentioned that the kill switch did shut off the ignition.
CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by CitationFV21 »

Yea, the kill switch kills everything - but get in the habit of turning off the ignition first and then turning off the kill switch and you will never have that problem.

ChrisZ

How are you doing John? I found out Tony hit the spinning Brian like cuting a pool ball and that's what shot him up the track. At the same time I think Dennis was spinning at the bottom. I don't know how any of us made it though that turn.
P-2 Mark
Posts: 77
Joined: September 8th, 2009, 1:07 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by P-2 Mark »

Chris,

Unfortunately, coils seem to go without warning. I lost one several years ago on the
backstretch at Nelson Ledges, where everything was running fine and then the
"sounds of silence" after the coil failed. Never seems to happen in the pits,
or during qualifying, but ALWAYS during the race. Don't get too discouraged
because we've all been struck by the curse at one time or another.

Mark
brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by brian »

Street coils rarely fail but the vibration in our cars is the killer. Go to Summit or one of our racing web site supporters and they will have coils that are designed for our enviornment and won't cost an arm and a leg.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
SR Racing
Posts: 1205
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 1:58 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by SR Racing »

Worse than a catastropic failure is when the secondary portion of the windings short. This simply lowers your spark voltage, The symptoms won't be as easy to diagnose as a no-fire. It will miss at peak torque and higher RPM. Interestingly enough a short in the primary section of the coil will actually give you a higher spark voltage, but typically burns the points pretty fast. It's a good idea to always carry a spare coil and not unheard of to replace it every few years.
fvracer
Posts: 42
Joined: June 25th, 2006, 11:15 am

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by fvracer »

Chris,

I agree with you, I think that the gearbox is cursed. You need to have an exorcism to rid it of evil spirits. Or have Lybarger douse it with holy water.

Doug
CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by CitationFV21 »

fvracer wrote:Chris,

I agree with you, I think that the gearbox is cursed. You need to have an exorcism to rid it of evil spirits. Or have Lybarger douse it with holy water.

Doug
There is another story there but I will save that for now - here is another part of the coil story - a few years ago I was racing at Lime Rock and with 1 lap to go the car started missing. So bad I pulled off and got towed in after the race - changed the coil and all seemed fine. Now I was a Boy Scout leader teaching the Auto Mechanics merit badge, so I thought it would be a good thing to show the boys a bad coil. I started cutting it open but then when back to work on the car - it would not start. Traced it back to the tach wire that had an intermittent ground - I had just cut up a good coil!!! :cry:

The replacement coil - that is the one that just failed.....................this time I tested it three times to be sure.

ChrisZ
jpetillo
Posts: 759
Joined: August 26th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by jpetillo »

CitationFV21 wrote: How are you doing John?
Chris, I'm doing just fine, thanks - no aches and pains.
John
Ed Womer
Posts: 245
Joined: July 19th, 2006, 8:53 am

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by Ed Womer »

Chris,

Turning the ignition off before the master is something I never do except when I come in off the track. When working on the car I always shut the car off with the master switch and never turn off the ignition. I have had a coil go bad but it was a slow process until it got bad enough to cause a big miss about half way thorough a session. The coil was so hot you couldn't touch it and a fellow racer diagnosed the problem and said to feel the coil and it was hot and it was so I replaced it and end of problem. I always carry a spare coil as well as just about eveything else to.

Ed
SR Racing
Posts: 1205
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 1:58 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by SR Racing »

Actually, we seldom turn off our kill switch during the wekend. As long as the ignition switch is off (and rain light, etc.) there is no reason to. You don't normally disconnect your battery on your street car everytime you leave it. <g> Our oil warning lamp stays lit on the dash if you have the ignition switch on so it's easy to see if you have left it on. We might turn the kill switch on/off once a weekend to just make sure the contacts stay clean but that's about it.
remmers
Posts: 164
Joined: December 4th, 2008, 10:07 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by remmers »

No, Tony didn't hit me. I made a rookie mistake and rolled out of the throttle a tad too much when I felt I was coming up on Dennis too quickly. That snap spun the car and I actually took Tony's valve stem out with my nose en route up the track. I slid up instead of down because I put both feet in, as they say to do in the driver's schools... In retrospect, I probably should have just matted it and steered for the infield (a la NASCAR)... Sorry to both Tony and John for ruining your races. :(
The other spinner was Vandecar in 2.
CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by CitationFV21 »

remmers wrote:No, Tony didn't hit me. I made a rookie mistake and rolled out of the throttle a tad too much when I felt I was coming up on Dennis too quickly. That snap spun the car and I actually took Tony's valve stem out with my nose en route up the track. I slid up instead of down because I put both feet in, as they say to do in the driver's schools... In retrospect, I probably should have just matted it and steered for the infield (a la NASCAR)... Sorry to both Tony and John for ruining your races. :(
The other spinner was Vandecar in 2.
Sorry - too many yellow Protoforms -(was Tony on your high side as you spun? If so then he was very lucky...) I saw you spinning in front of me and then you shot up the track - could not figure out why but when I heard you and Tony hit I figured that is what did it.

As far as hitting the throttle, Carl Edwards did that at Montreal in the DP car and ended up in the fence - I don't think the same rules apply in the rain :lol: Of course we don't have any practice spinning on the banking in the rain to find out......Also we don't have 600 hp either. The secret in the rain seems to be either to have diabolical car control or to do everything as gentle as possible - there is no middle ground.

BTW - did anyone run a camera during that race - just wondering if it looked as bad as it did in person.

ChrisZ
remmers
Posts: 164
Joined: December 4th, 2008, 10:07 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by remmers »

my camera was installed, but i forgot to turn it on. sunday's qualifying battery was dead. so only have sat qual and half of sunday's race taped. Maybe ask andy and jeff in the stewart rental car. they both had a go-pro mounted to their rollhoops
AJP
Posts: 41
Joined: February 20th, 2008, 9:10 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by AJP »

I didn't have a camera running on Saturday but I found this on the YouTube.....I think it's Craig Swinehart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwIdUkLMdRU

-Andy
CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by CitationFV21 »

That is me in the Black car - glad Craig didn't run into me - I really had to whoa up as Brian was spinning and I had to wait until John picked (which unfortunally turned out to be the wrong side) the lane to take. Craig went low and almost ran into Tony! Looks like Dennis up high dancing around up by the wall.

You can see as Craig passes behind me that you can't see the cars ahead of me. The camera lies - I remember it as worse - and it seemed to pour just before we got the flag which really made the first turn interesting - great shot.

ChrisZ
subrew
Posts: 32
Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:23 am

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by subrew »

Yep, that is Craig. He sent that to me that night. Quite a first lap!

Chris H.
-used to live in VT, autocrosed with Craig when we both owned Subies.
CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by CitationFV21 »

Oh, and to cap it off - it was the 13th race on the engine rebuild......... :twisted:

ChrisZ
jpetillo
Posts: 759
Joined: August 26th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by jpetillo »

It's interesting to hear what others saw happen. What the video shows is pretty much how I remembered it - at least the part that involved me. Visibility was no better than the video showed. I was just to the outside of Brian when he began to spin. He was on the inside of the track and first appeared to be staying down low and inside with the spin. That was good. I headed to the outside lanes to get around in case he drifted up the track. It seemed like a safe move, and there really was nothing else to do. He then started slowly coming across the track and I was hoping I was paced to clear him. I remember steering to the outside to get up as close to the wall as I could run. I saw in the corner of my eye that Brian had tangled with someone else - that was Tony - and that seemed to shoot him across the track even faster and right into me, sending me into the wall. The hit with Brian was pretty hard. Brian bounced into the air a bit if I remember right, and then I had a much harder hit broadside into the wall - the wall having much less give. I was expecting to see a third car (Tony's) sitting there after all was said and done. Glad I didn't! We thankfully both walked away unscathed. John
CitationFV21
Posts: 272
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

Re: Still learning - coil failure - curse

Post by CitationFV21 »

Well, I guess I have to give up the bad luck award to Jeremy Treadway

Check out this thread:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36254

and look at the discussion after the picture from Jeremy.

It usually is not the big things that get us.....

ChrisZ
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