Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

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remmers
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Joined: December 4th, 2008, 10:07 pm

Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by remmers »

I know that there's several colleges and handful of high schools that put on car shows every year. Do you think it would be a worthwhile endeavor to utilize this audience of young motor-heads by perhaps setting up a vendor booth or bringing a handful of cars to shows to generate interest?
FV80
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by FV80 »

By all means - YES. If you have a place to go, take your car and wear your driver's suit. You might also print out some SCCA membership applications and take a couple of SportsCar Mags.
It certainly can't hurt.
Steve
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please send me an email or PM with your name, location (city/state), make/model of car, phone # and any other appropriate info.
SR Racing
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by SR Racing »

If you do a decent size event. Let us know. We will send you a few copies of the first few chapters of the "Getting Started in FV" books. It covers much in the way of how to get started, buying a car, equipment required etc.

Jim
SR
hardingfv32-1
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by hardingfv32-1 »

Why the obsession with youth. Do any of them actually have the money available to spend on racing a FV?

The proper events to be at are associated with the lawyer and medical conventions. Maybe some professional engineering organizations. You need a population with disposable income. Age holds no importance.

Brian
Matt King
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Matt King »

Ever been to a kart race? The ones I've been to had a sh*t-ton of disposable income being expended on youth, if not necessarily by them. Plus, a successful organization will market to all population segments to balance short, medium and long term growth potential.
Doug Carter
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Doug Carter »

There are plenty of "kids" with a LOT of money. Just look at the entry list of the last Pro Mazda or Pro F2000 race. :roll:

The problem with FV and it's connection to younger audiences is that it lacks serious sex appeal of the more contemporary (looking and handling) winged classes in the SCCA and beyond. The average age of the FV driver at the last RunOffs was 53. This is not a class that is currently appealing to younger drivers. There are a lot of reasons why.

As it stands, the cars "kids" are building in college engineering classes are technologically superior to your average FV. Looking for more doctors and lawyers only increases that average age of the group, and quite honestly, the guys with a lot of cash to play with on the weekends are probably going to go to faster, more contemporary looking winged cars like FC and FE.

FV suffers the same fate as FF in that the holding onto 40-year old rules, very old technology and long out of production parts will relegate the classes to vintage and club-oriented racing without much growth or new, young blood. There is nothing wrong with that position (for the record, FV and FF are two of my favorite classes), but trying to court a younger crowd for new FV racers might be spitting into the wind.



Just another perspective,


doug
remmers
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by remmers »

I asked because the University of Connecticut Car Club puts on a car show every spring (first or second week in April) and they usually get between 200 and 350 cars entering the show, not including the fact that it's right on campus, so a large number of college students show up to spectate. (The UC3 car show also boasts being the first show of the year most years)
SR Racing
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by SR Racing »

I have to agree with Doug. Showing Vee's to the older crowd might get some interest. ("I knew a guy that raced these back in the 60's. Looks like fun.")
Showing them to the younger, especially car savy crowd, gets you weird stares and some chuckles. They drive Mustangs or Rice Burners that have lots more performance and technology in them. If they have a dad sponsor or some money of their own, they are looking at winged things or sports cars. The Vee is a 40 year old car that looks it. If you got them in one to race, they would likely change their opinion, but that probably isn't going to happen.
Sorry to throw this in, but that is one of the reasons we started FST. Even it doesn't have many 18 year olds rushing to it, but many like the idea and it has attracted lots of new blood.

As far as Vee being a stepping stone up the ladder, we know that is bogus. We are almost new blood in FV and we have been racing them for almost 20 years. In those 20 years, I have only seen maybe 3 people that came from Karts. The vast majority of Vee guys were here when we got here.
Steven McWilliams JR
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Steven McWilliams JR »

I'm 16 and just bought my own FV with my own cash from working, I ran out of money, then my dad stepped in and helped. My Dad has a FC, and we're going to start taking both cars to shows around here, although they're mostly American Muscle, there are plenty of Triumphs and stuff there. My friends think the car is cool, but I just don't think parents, or kids are willing to spend all the money to start something that is very expensive, and dangerous.
I'm trying to get my friends to do PDX's in their cars, although that will be expensive; TT license and membership fee if you're under 18, plus the entry fee. Most kids have Civics and tC's here so they all race at a drag strip, I showed them my car, and it was just kind of "eh". If it doesn't have a turbo, huge subwoofers and expensive (but mostly crappy) rims I guess kids my age aren't interested.
I think I'll start taking a coule of friends to my races so they can see what SCCA has to offer, and SCCA can hopefully pickup members in general.
SR Racing wrote: As far as Vee being a stepping stone up the ladder, we know that is bogus.
I'm hoping to use it as a stepping stone, I came from 3yrs of karting, I'm going to do FV for a couple of years, and then hopefully drive the FC. I know a guy who drives in Koni Challenge, so hopefully that'll help
Steven McWilliams Jr.
Crew: #92 1986 Reynard SF2000
Driver: #19 1992 Vista C
#15 ITA Honda Civic Si
SR Racing
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by SR Racing »

Steven McWilliams JR wrote: I'm hoping to use it as a stepping stone, I came from 3yrs of karting, I'm going to do FV for a couple of years, and then hopefully drive the FC. I know a guy who drives in Koni Challenge, so hopefully that'll help
Steven,

In regards to the Vee being a stepping stone to your learning curve.. It certainly is. You will learn a lot. However, as far as it getting you the kind of exposure you need to get to pro levels (if that is your goal), Vee is a waste of time. You will need lots of money and exposure in a winged class. The vee will be great cost effective fun, but an unecessary step.
remmers
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by remmers »

Methinks that's why he's moving up to FC after a couple years in vee.
Yes, there's very little exposure in Vee anymore. Possibly getting a new national Pro-Vee series together that gets TV coverage and follows an established pro series (eg. ALMS, GrandAm, IRL) would help that? Also doesn't help that it's not considered a feeder class anymore given the average age of the competitors. All kinda a vicious endless cycle. Nobody young and serious about moving up joins because it's not considered a feeder series, it's not considered a feeder series because there's nobody young looking to move up in it. Catch 22.
Granted, not all youngsters who want to race are looking to go pro. It's worth trying to get some fresh blood.
hardingfv32-1
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by hardingfv32-1 »

Most of the youth in FV are just pampered children of old time Vee racers. Some are more interested in using their fancy phone in the race car than in actually making the car faster.

Brian
remmers
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by remmers »

Good point. Most of the people who race vees have had prior experience with formula vees, whether through family or friends. What do they see in vees that the average passerby would not? I think if we could pin down a good answer and find a way to get the average passerby to see why those who have been around vees like them, we might have a better shot at getting anyone from any age group.
Steven McWilliams JR
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Steven McWilliams JR »

SR Racing wrote: In regards to the Vee being a stepping stone to your learning curve.. It certainly is. You will learn a lot. However, as far as it getting you the kind of exposure you need to get to pro levels (if that is your goal), Vee is a waste of time. You will need lots of money and exposure in a winged class. The vee will be great cost effective fun, but an unecessary step.
I guess its not necessarily a stepping stone, just a way for me to race through high school and college, and so both my dad and I can race without breaking the bank, I start paying for stuff my first race. The FV is for me to get used to downshifting, (I think I downshifted twice in a streetcar before drivers school) and a way for me to get track time until I can afford to race the FC. I'm hoping I can go into a race prep shop during/after college, I'm 99% sure we don't have enough money to go pro, but I'll try. Then try to just work around racecars for the rest of my life.

Jim, I sent off my tach by the way!

Steven
Steven McWilliams Jr.
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Driver: #19 1992 Vista C
#15 ITA Honda Civic Si
hardingfv32-1
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by hardingfv32-1 »

What is the big deference in cost ... IF... you are not crashing. I see no up side for the other FV competitors while you get your crashing out of your system while in a FV for a couple of years. I think your dad is just protecting his fellow FC competitors/friends from your lack of experience.

Brian
remmers
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by remmers »

I'm under the impression tires cost a heck of a lot more in other classes, possibly also use more fuel too.
AJP
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by AJP »

Most of the youth in FV are just pampered children of old time Vee racers. Some are more interested in using their fancy phone in the race car than in actually making the car faster.
That's a bit negative isn't it?
Should they be spending their money on fancy intake manifolds? I'll bet they just want to get good enough at driving so they can appreciate what a good intake manifold can do for them and they would rather listen to their phone than a grumpy old man :lol:


I feel the thing we need to convey to potential newcomers, young or old, doctors, bakers or intake manifold makers, is that FV is still the least expensive open wheel class (with a suspension) and yes, it is old technology but it's faster than your mothers Ford Escort or your fathers 325i around a race track and you can tow it to the track with either the Escort or the BMW. If you are handy you can still make a winning race car and if you're not so handy you will still have someone to race with. Bringing a Vee to a car show is a great idea...that is the audience that would understand that sticking an engine on the back of a tube frame chassis is pretty much a race car...and those fancy phone toting youngsters may just have a blast with their crazy iPhone, GPS, data acquisition, track mapping, video takin, lap timing and other really cool stuff that is available to us all now.

Andy Pastore
Defending the youth of FV
Bill_Bonow
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Bill_Bonow »

AJP wrote:..... that FV is still the least expensive open wheel class (with a suspension)
Andy,

I'd challenge this with one exception. It is the least expensive open wheel SCCA National class with suspension. However, that other open wheeled air cooled VW SCCA Regional class is way less expensive to build, race and maintain (and the kids like it too).

As for Brian Harding, true, he is a bit salty. But, weed through his sarcastic delivery methods and he is never far off the mark.
Bill Bonow
" I love Formula Vees, they're delicious!"
Veefan
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Veefan »

“Some are more interested in using their fancy phone in the race car than in actually making the car faster”

How do you know you’re going faster? … wait until the end of the race and get your lap times… Bad, Pit board…ok… use a lap timer… strap a 2x3 box to your dash, another one on the roll bar… and another one by the track… good… Replace the dash and all the sensors with a data acquisition dash… better… take the phone you have in your pocket, load an app… to track your lap times, G’s, track mapping… check the weather map while your on the grid… then make dinner reservations waiting in the impound (well maybe some day)… I’m real close to the 53 average age, I’m with the KID’S!!!!! I loaded the app, on my iPhone really cool, getting the 3Gs Friday, racing with it at Limerock this Saturday.
Steven McWilliams JR
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Steven McWilliams JR »

Yeah, because all I did was crash my way through karts, and still was able to finish out of top 3 once in 3 years, so my dad wants me to risk the FV drivers safety and cars, not his friends.
Nope, that's not it at all. He wants me to drive it this year, but he just got brand new shocks, diffuser,engine head, cam, and tail peice, and wing on it, and he wanted to drive a practically brand new car before I did. and this way we can both race together, not share one car. If the cost wasn't so different, why isn't everybody just racing Formula Continentals?- Tires every weekend, takes more time to prepare the car, probably uses up more fuel -2000cc vs. 1200cc 145hp v 60hp, etc.
Steven McWilliams Jr.
Crew: #92 1986 Reynard SF2000
Driver: #19 1992 Vista C
#15 ITA Honda Civic Si
remmers
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by remmers »

also motor rebuilts probably cost one heck of a pretty penny more, anything you buy to update the car is gonna cost a whole boatload more too. i'm sure if you want to run mid to back of the pack, you could spend comperable. but who wants to do that?
Steven McWilliams JR
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Steven McWilliams JR »

yeah the whole thing was very expensive...

now back to..

Promote FV!
Steven McWilliams Jr.
Crew: #92 1986 Reynard SF2000
Driver: #19 1992 Vista C
#15 ITA Honda Civic Si
hardingfv32-1
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by hardingfv32-1 »

The operating costs for a weekend are quite similar ASSUMING you already own a car. The motor and tires can last just as long if you choose to run the car that way. There are FV competitors that have new tires every weekend. Car prep is the same if the cars are maintained to the same level. Why would a rebuild be that more expensive, same number of bearings, valves, etc.

I would estimate that an FC engine is more stock than a FV engine. Updates: Does FC have a pricey manifold update available from Monster Manie?

The bottom line...he had to buy another car. That is hedge against possible damage to his and friends cars.

Brian
supersmile
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by supersmile »

FWIW, and its a bit off-topic:

FC tires generally are OK for 8 heat cycles unless you are up front at Nationals..$850/set

"Name Brand" rebuild around $4500 every other year, with perhaps a head refresh every year. That's assuming a 10-12 race season, no bad over-revs, and again, not at the pointy end at Nationals. The manifold is essentially stock.

Brakes last forever, you spend a bit more on transmission fluid as you toss a quart everytime you change gearsets, slightly more fuel consumption (still on Cam2 or Avgas)

Don't ask if you knock off a corner, wing, or diffuser.

But the fixed costs are the same: entry fee, hotels, tow gas, food, and the rest.

I haven't found 2 and a half seasons in FC to be much more expensive than FV, and the cars can actually cost a lot less to buy than a good Vee if, again, you don't plan on running up front in Nationals.

But the races don't seem to last as long....
Rob Zatz
Matt King
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Re: Possible way to reach out to a younger audience

Post by Matt King »

A clapped out, obsolete, and generally uncompetitive FC that needs a total overhaul can be bought for less what a really good National level FV costs, but you can buy a clapped out, obsolete, and generally uncompetive FV that needs a total overhaul for under $3000, so let's compare "apples to apples."
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