Fuel bladder/cell

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Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

I need a new bladder/cell,seen a few on the internet but width is a problem,Mine has to be no more than 13 1/2" wide,and a wedge shape..4 gallon,any input on suppliers please?Thought I had found the perfect one on the web,a Formula Road Race Cell CB400 for only $407:50 but its 17 1/4" wide :cry: ..same with one by ATL @ $ 596:20 4 Gall but it was 15" wide :shock: ..Thanx in advance for any input.
tiagosantos
Posts: 391
Joined: June 20th, 2010, 12:10 am

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by tiagosantos »

You'll most likely need a new custom fuel cell.. When I checked last year, I was quoted about $800 for a custom cell from Fuel Safe..
SR Racing
Posts: 1209
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 1:58 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by SR Racing »

We carry the ATL FC-152, but it is 14" wide. You will probably have to go custom. We can get them but it will be in the $700+ range I suspect.
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

SR Racing wrote:We carry the ATL FC-152, but it is 14" wide. You will probably have to go custom. We can get them but it will be in the $700+ range I suspect.
Yep! It looks like a custom job,my floor is actually 14" (Mysterian M2)and I looked at the ATL FC-152,but it might be a bit tight kinda thing,pity as its only $640,custom one is going to be $800+ :shock: :roll:
SR Racing
Posts: 1209
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 1:58 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by SR Racing »

No. the FC-152 is much less than that from me. Don't purchase directly from ATL or Fuel Safe. The authorized resellers are usually less. The manufacturers always sell at the Suggested retail or MAP price.
G.B.
Posts: 54
Joined: February 17th, 2008, 10:59 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by G.B. »

Have a careful read of the regulations.

SCCA GCR states that a fuel cell must be ‘FIA FT3 certified’, this basically means your options are ATL or Fuel Safe.

However CASC regulations state the fuel cell must be manufactured to FIA FT3 regulations or better. Crucially, they do not mention ‘certified’ FT3 containers. This opens up rotary moulded containers such as those made by Jaz, which are much cheaper and less prone to leaking.

Example:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JAZ-Products/547/ ... tId=758786

These cells still need to be contained within 0.060” thick aluminium container, so that cost will have to factored into your costing. So if you do not intend running in the USA, this may be a viable option.
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

G.B. wrote:Have a careful read of the regulations.

SCCA GCR states that a fuel cell must be ‘FIA FT3 certified’, this basically means your options are ATL or Fuel Safe.

However CASC regulations state the fuel cell must be manufactured to FIA FT3 regulations or better. Crucially, they do not mention ‘certified’ FT3 containers. This opens up rotary moulded containers such as those made by Jaz, which are much cheaper and less prone to leaking.

Example:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JAZ-Products/547/ ... tId=758786

These cells still need to be contained within 0.060” thick aluminium container, so that cost will have to factored into your costing. So if you do not intend running in the USA, this may be a viable option.
Guy,
So are you saying I could legally use the JEGS cell in the picture you posted as long as I contain it in 0.060" aluminium container??As I only race in Ontario,not the USA.
Frank #87
problemchild
Posts: 902
Joined: June 25th, 2006, 9:34 am

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by problemchild »

Yes, that is the situation, as I understand it anyway.

Because it makes so much sense as an effective cost-saving tool, someone will probably want to change it before long.

For the length of the Cdn races, a container picking up 2 gallons of fuel, is probably adequate.
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

Spoke to Bill Vallis and he said its still legal in Canada ,so thats the way I am going,plus an Aluminum container...Hope they dont change the rule to soon Greg :mrgreen: :shock: Approx cost will be$250 instead of $800..blimey!!!thats an engine rebuild(Thats next :lol: )Tired engine,I need another 10KPH and a bottle of courage.
hojo
Posts: 64
Joined: December 20th, 2007, 3:56 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by hojo »

frank, fix one leak another one pops up! you can never have enough fingers to plug all the "holes in the bucket" that are vees.
Andrew McMurray
EX - Ontario F1200
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

Yes!Got all excited when Bill found the oil leak reason and it was fixed.....then go to the mock grid for the last race and Marshall tells me I have a fuel leak :evil: :mrgreen: Still!!First time video on GO-Pro has come out great!!wonderful learning tool too,I lent it to Kevin for last race and his video is great too,gotta figure out how to put it on YOU-TUBE next.
G.B.
Posts: 54
Joined: February 17th, 2008, 10:59 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by G.B. »

Another thought. The Jaz cell I used a few years ago, didn’t have a roll over air vent, i.e. a self sealing air vent, which closes should the car roll over. Your old cell may have one or you may have to buy that separately, another $30 or so.
Dave
Posts: 187
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 2:40 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Dave »

Send your cell to hartwig for repair. They are reasonable and can repair all most any cell. They are in Canada
Dave
tiagosantos
Posts: 391
Joined: June 20th, 2010, 12:10 am

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by tiagosantos »

For all the recommendations that Hartwig gets, I must have been really unlucky. Sent my cell to them as I noticed a leak before a race I really wanted to do and didn't have enough time for a custom cell. Cost me a little over $650 to repair my cell, plus shipping both ways, ended up costing me almost 800 bucks. Which is about the price of a custom cell! Oh, that doesn't include foam either, they quoted me another $200 if I wanted to get foam through them.

The repaired cell started leaking again 2 months later.. Their warranty covered the second repair, but it cost me another 70 bucks to get it there.
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

Dave wrote:Send your cell to hartwig for repair. They are reasonable and can repair all most any cell. They are in Canada
Dave
Bladder is beyond repair..it was made in 1995(Fuel Safe)they were impressed to say the least :P I have ordered a 3 Gall cell and will enclose it in Aluminum as we can use them in Ontario 8) Total will be approx $300 instead of $800+ :shock:
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

Is Hartwig the Airport based company?out Western Canada?..If so they just send it to the USA,they dont do it themselves.
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

Is Hartwig out Western Canada,on an Airport?If so,they just use a USA company,they dont do it themselves.
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

If Hartwig is the company out in Western Canada at an airport,they just send it to a USA company,they dont do it themselves.
jstoezel
Posts: 208
Joined: September 19th, 2010, 6:21 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by jstoezel »

Hartwig is based at the St Andrews airport in Manitoba. It's a 20min drive from where I live. They do some of the repairs themselves, at least they did the "repairs" on my old bladder.

I don't recommend them at all.

In 2009 I bought my FV and little did I know that it had a leaky fuel cell. I brought it for repairs to Hartwig since they're so close. $450 or $500 later, I still had to assemble the fuel cell myself, they hadn't pressure tested it, and it leaked as soon as I put gas in it. And apparently I had no recourse since there was no guarantee on this type of repair.

I ended up getting a new fuel cell from Fred Clark (it's a custom one for the Lynx), which cost around $850 plus shipping and custom fees.

Jean
Jean-Sebastien Stoezel
WCMA FV #0
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

Apologies for multiple posts :shock:
brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by brian »

yea, I had a cell repaired by Hartwick. The price was a bit steep and it leaked a few weekends later.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
G.B.
Posts: 54
Joined: February 17th, 2008, 10:59 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by G.B. »

The following is taken from the FIA FT3 standard circ 1999:

FUEL BLADDER LIFETIME
No fuel bladders shall be used for more than 5 years after the date of manufacture, unless reinspected and recertified by the manufacturer at the end of this 5 year period, for a supplementary period of up to 2 years after the date of recertification not exceeding 7 years after the date of manufacture.


As I read this even if you have the bladder recertified after 5 years, the certification expires after seven regardless. Thus Frank’s 1995 fuel bladder probably ceased to be FT3 certified in 2000.

SCCA requires FT3 certified fuel cells, I wonder how many actually are!
Rolling Stone
Posts: 90
Joined: January 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Rolling Stone »

And my Mysterian M2 was racing in the USA up until 2009....in Canada 2010 till now :shock: I had to carefully clean a lot of gunk off the bladder to read the manufactured date :roll: Still impressive how long it lasted tho..1995 till 2011 :lol: I would go with FUEL SAFE again it was one of thiers.
Dave
Posts: 187
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 2:40 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by Dave »

I have had 3 Van Diemen FC cells repaired at Hartwick, all were around $450. They wrapped the bottom and 2-3 inches up the sides as they were all seeping fuel. All were ATL 2001- 2005 cells.

Dave
VORT94
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Joined: December 18th, 2007, 5:46 pm

Re: Fuel bladder/cell

Post by VORT94 »

Try Eagle Mostly I'm checking my log status. thanks
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