Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

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wake74
Posts: 7
Joined: November 21st, 2010, 9:24 pm

Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by wake74 »

I’ll start with a quick intro and then ask what are probably even pre-newbie questions. Probably not a single question in here that hasn’t already been asked in one manner or another.

Background – I am located in the Richmond, VA area and in my mid-30s, married with a 4 year old. We both have engineering backgrounds, so we have a tendency to over-plan before jumping into something. I am in the planning stages of purchasing a Formula Vee and working on the logistics of both the racing and correlating domestic issues. First step was to build a shed large enough to clear the lawn junk out of the garage, and that is finished. I have absolutely no racing experience with the exception of a few autocrosses in my former MGBV8. Decent general mechanical skills (and tools) as I did the restoration and conversion of my MGB myself. I don’t plan on building engines myself anytime soon J

Goals – Learn to race in a low pressure, friendly environment within a reasonable driving distance from Richmond. My focus will be on learning more than having to run at the front, although I want a car at least capable of running mid-pack as my experience grows.

Question 1, Race Series Options: It would appear from my goals that the Formula Race Car Club of America would seem like a logical choice given my geographic area. The forum on that web-site seems pretty slow, so I’m going to ask here. Has anyone gone through their race school? There isn’t really any info about the school on the web-site, and I’d be curious as to how comprehensive an introduction it is. The forum threads I’ve read in regards to the SCCA schools, would lead one to believe that you need to bring an experienced crew with you to school to service the car while you are in class or just rent a car in an arrive / drive format as there is no “free time”. Curious if the same applies to the FRCCA school.

Question 1A: The other logical option would be to run with the Washington DC SCCA region in their MARRS series. Anyone race in both and would care to compare the two? Rookie friendliness, track time, etc. They seem to run a double training session in the spring that would fit the bill it appears. See above comment about SCCA schools, wondering if this applies to MARRS.

Question 2: This one is pretty subjective. How “family friendly” are the average events? I understand the obvious risks of letting a 4 year old run free around a paddock. We don’t let him run wild in a store, certainly not going to let him run free in a paddock. However, do you see wives / families at most events?

Question 3: Crew. How practical is it to come to an event solo, or do most people bring crew members to help out?

Question 4: Car Models. I’ve spent a fair amount of time visiting the FV websites, but haven’t found a good “buying guide”, what to look out for, what to avoid, etc. Does such a thing exist?

Question 4A: Is there a web-site or resource describing the plusses and minuses of the various “modern” FV models? I understand this is probably like asking whether an MG or Triumph is better, and will get a wide variety of opinions.

Question 5: How uncompetitive is a vintage vee when racing with modern cars such as in the FRCCA or MARRS? Unless I really want to get involved with the VRG, etc. is there any reason to even consider vintage vees? Will it be so uncompetitive to be dangerous (too slow) and not any fun when raced with modern Vees?

Question 6: Any recommended reading material? I have already ordered the Intro to FVee, from SR Racing, that should be here this week I hope. Hopefully, good reading for the holiday weekend.

Thanks in advance for the help,

Glenn
smsazzy
Posts: 703
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 5:56 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by smsazzy »

I would highly recommend purchasing the Gettring Started in Formula Vee book from SR Racing. that will point you in the right direction.

When first starting out, try to find some help. Once you have the hang of it, you can do an event solo.

Most events are family friendly, just choose your pit spot wisely. Far away from grid and hopefully backing to some grass, depending on the venue, is a good idea.

A Vintage car (one with fan shroud, non-zero roll, etc) will be several seconds or more off the pace of a modern vee, depending on the track.
Stephen Saslow
FV 09 NWR
problemchild
Posts: 901
Joined: June 25th, 2006, 9:34 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by problemchild »

Its the wrong time of year for my response ..... but if you went to the track to visit ..... then found someone to crew for ..... in 3 or 4 weekends you will be able to answer all those questions for yourself. You will also be much more qualified to buy and prep your first race car.

Hopefully, your post will bring some contact from local FV racers, and potential mentors. You will soon find the people who you connect with.
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
jmattox
Posts: 131
Joined: September 24th, 2006, 9:40 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by jmattox »

Come to Sunny Sebring this weekend for the Turkey Trot. Or, the Quad national in January. CFRSCCA.org will give you our schedule. And, I do build my own engines. I don't run up front, but, we have a lot of fun. My son co-drives with me at Sebring and Daytona, my wife supports our racing "effort" and we are trying to get our grandchildren involved in racing on the race track so they won't feel the need to speed on the highway.

John
FV42
rphillips
Posts: 112
Joined: January 10th, 2008, 9:11 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by rphillips »

Hi Glenn,

First, welcome to the FV community! I'm located in Sterling, VA and although I have been only entering National races recently, I can tell you that the MARRS series is one of the most competitive regional series in the US with a great bunch of drivers supporting it. I haven't raced in the Formula Race Car Club but from what I understand it is also a great group and it only has open wheel racing so that can be a plus. In general, I think it is a little bit more low key compared to SCCA events. I don't know anything about their schools but I think that the SCCA school is really good. Of course I also instruct so I'm probably prejudiced. Personally, I went through a professional driving school for my first school and then went through an SCCA school with my FV. I still think that is a good combination but there is nothing wrong with attending two SCCA schools. I do think that renting a car for a school is the best way to go. The best group to rent a Vee from at Summit Point is Ski Motorsports (http://www.ski-motorsports.com). Paul Czekanski is the owner and Jeremy Grenier is the Crew Chief (and top notch racer).

Regarding family friendliness, I think either the MARRS series are the FRCCA meet that requirement but it all depends on how intersted the family members are. My wife is my crew and she does a damn fine job but because she is my crew she is obviously interested in being there -- I'm very lucky in that regard. I know other drivers whose wives or family members just don't have the interest so they don't attend. There is obviously nothing wrong with that.

In regards to having crews or not, there are some drivers that do it on their own but most drivers have one person helping them out. It is hard to explain here but there really can be a lot going on and you don't want to miss sessions because you don't have the time to get something done by yourself or you forgot to do something. I crewed for 4 years before I purchased my first Vee. The delay between crewing and racing was mainly due to financial reasons but that 4 years of learning the ropes did me a lot of good and Greg's suggestion is a very good one.

There are a lot of different opinions about car models but truthfully all you need right now is a good dependable car so that you can learn car control and car set-up. If you get to the point where you really think that the car is holding you back then you can always upgrade. I started off with a Caracal B and I currently have a Protoform P3. In regards to a website, check this one out: http://www.formulavee.us/.

I have never driven a vintage vee but I think vees have come a long way and I suspect that a vintage vee would be pretty slow compared to the modern ones.

Btw, you are welcome to contact me directly if you have more questions. My email is fvee5 at hotmail dot com. You are also welcome to come up and look at my car if you think that will help you.

Regards,

Ray Phillips
Edward Schubert
Posts: 110
Joined: September 10th, 2007, 5:06 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by Edward Schubert »

Ray makes a lot of good points. He was my instructor when I went to the SCCA school at Summit Point. I rented a car from Ski and Jeremy was my "crew chief". Between him and Ray you would have a hard time finding a better team to help you. The drivers school is very intense and you will not have time to chase mechanical gremlins. The MARRS group is a lot of fun to be around. They are willing to help in any way. I have been to several of their races and have helped others and have learned a lot. Unfortunately I have had a few bumps with my health and have yet to race. Hopefully I will be out there this spring. I have been around racing since I was a child. Mostly round track stuff and have raced everything from Midgets to Stock Cars. However I found the Vee very challenging and a blast to drive. The MARRS group by far is the friendliest and will always make you feel welcome. My car has been a work in progress (stalled for a while). I have my frame at the powder coaters now and expect it back in a week or two. You are more then welcome to come down and see it and ask questions. I live in Williamsburg and am available most all the time. My number is 757-692-1181. Good luck in your racing endeavors.

Ed Schubert ed schubert at live dot com
Ed Schubert
Zink/Citation 18B
edschubert@live.com
757-692-1181
wake74
Posts: 7
Joined: November 21st, 2010, 9:24 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by wake74 »

Many thanks to all who have offered responses and suggestions so far. I'm spending some time reading old posts and other misc. info on the internet.

smsazzy - Jim's book has already shipped. Should be here in the next few days. Will make for some good hoilday reading, and may fill in the blanks on some of the obvious stuff.

Ray - Thanks for the detailed response. I'm up and down the East Coast regularly on business, and would enjoy stopping by on a future trip to look at your car, and ask some other questions. The advice about renting for the school is pretty consistent, and makes logical sense. Add another $1,500+ to the start-up costs. It appears that MARRS has a double school in the spring, that I believe would satisfy the two school requirement. I'll be in touch after the long weekend to talk about a time to get together. I'm sure my wife will want to participate as a spectator, but I don't see her playing spectator and mom more than crew chief.

Ed - Your almost a local. I'm also down in your neck of VA regularly, as we have a couple of projects right now in Williamsburg and at Jefferson Labs. Keep in touch and let me know when you get your frame back, and I'll stop by and take a look. Great to hear about the MARRS group.

Another follow-up question about schools:

1. I know the SCCA school doesn't require any previous "racing" experience, but is it realistic to take the class in a car I've never driven? Ie., if I rent a Vee from Ski-motorsports, I wouldn't be concerned about car prep, but it is reasonably to take the class in a car you've never driven and pass? I hear of people just renting a spec miata, or something similar for the class. Personally, if I'm going to spend $2k on a class, I'd rather do it in something akin to what I was going to race in.
rphillips
Posts: 112
Joined: January 10th, 2008, 9:11 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by rphillips »

Hi Glenn,

I think that you are better off to take the school in a car similar to what you plan on racing. This is the best way to find out if you are really going to like it. If you rent then you can get with the folks that you are renting the car from prior to the school and get fitted in the car in order to help you be a little more comfortable. What we are mainly looking for in the school is safety, awareness, car control, and improvement. The car and being on a race track will feel very different to you at first but you will probably be surprised at how fast you can adjust and pick up speed. The important thing is to not push it too hard too fast. If you learn to be smooth and controlled then the speed will come.

Ray
RacerGeek
Posts: 245
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 1:05 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by RacerGeek »

May be too early in the process to think about cars, but Ski Motorsports rents a Womer. There are two available in the northeast that are pretty good deals.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42750

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40392

Ed Womer lives near DC and is great to work with. His cars are roomy and safe.
Bob VanDyke
pillowmeto
Posts: 103
Joined: January 5th, 2008, 12:54 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by pillowmeto »

I have sent you a PM, which can be seen at the top left corner.
wake74
Posts: 7
Joined: November 21st, 2010, 9:24 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by wake74 »

Bob - Thanks for the links. I have looked at these. Currently don't know enough about what I'm looking at to know a good deal from an over-priced one when it comes to Vees.

There are a number of "race ready" cars for sale currently on the internet, and vary a fair amount in price ($5k to $10k+). I'm sure it depends upon the sellers definition of race ready, and whether the car is a potential front runner, mid-pack or back-marker car.

I know I want something complete, race ready, reliable, and capable of running at least mid-pack as my experience grows. Beyond that, it's a bit tough for a novice to tell the subtleties of what makes the car a good car for a good price.
wake74
Posts: 7
Joined: November 21st, 2010, 9:24 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by wake74 »

I wanted to post a follow-up. It's never good when a newby comes into a forum asks some questions, and then disappears. After looking at several cars / classes, I ended purchasing an early Reynard FF. It hasn't competed for several years, but was last run as an FF with MARRS around 2001. It will be making a return to racing this year (with me at the wheel) in the FRCCA.

Thanks to everyone who I meant on the board, some of which I'm still corresponding with. Good luck with the upcoming 2011 race season. I still read the posts on this forum as there is often some good info that is not formula vee specific.

Glenn
rphillips
Posts: 112
Joined: January 10th, 2008, 9:11 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by rphillips »

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the update and have fun with your FF!

Regards,

Ray
FV80
Site Admin
Posts: 1195
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by FV80 »

Yes - after your first CRASH (hopefully never? <g>), you may find out the major difference between an $$$older Reynard$$$ and an older Vee :shock:
I'm pretty sure that's why MOST of us here on this forum are where we are, rather than those faster classes... Fun is fun, no matter what .. but when the fun gets crashed, it comes down to WALLET!!

Good luck,
Steve
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
problemchild
Posts: 901
Joined: June 25th, 2006, 9:34 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by problemchild »

Those were great cars Glenn. You'll have a blast. Good luck!
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
Hal
Posts: 107
Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:36 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by Hal »

I know the traditional thinking when a FF got whacked was about $1000 a corner, I wonder what that would be now considering inflation and all...

Hal
D-13 88
Citation 88
problemchild
Posts: 901
Joined: June 25th, 2006, 9:34 am

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by problemchild »

Oh .... come on. The guy bought a race car. Let him enjoy it without being negative. He was nice enough to check back in.

He did lots of research. He made his decision. Only he will know if it was a good one ..... and it may take him a decade to know for sure :)

BTW ..... With the price of beams, offset bushings, ride-height adjusters, needle bearing link-pin shims, needle bearing sway bar spacers, penske shocks, green brake shoes, spindle stiffeners, custom steering arms, wheel shortage prices, etc ..... the difference between taking off corners on FVs and FFs is not nearly as much as it once was.
Greg Rice
"Happy 50th Birthday"
jpetillo
Posts: 759
Joined: August 26th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Re: Pre-Novice Questions - Multiple Categories

Post by jpetillo »

I agree with Greg - the research was done and the decision was made. Glenn best of luck with the FF. It'll no doubt be a blast!
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