Brazil VW Pistons & Cylinders

[1969zeitler]

Are they good for a FV engine?

[hardingfv32-1]

They are fine.

Are you still trying to do this yourself? Do you have access to a dyno to test if you did the job correctly? Are you a good engine mechanic? Do you have a race engine shop that will do the necessary machining for you on an air cooled VW?

Brian

[1969zeitler]

I guess I don't understand the feeling by some people on this board that individuals can not build a motor correctly. You don't know me. You have no idea what I have done or can do. And, you did not bother to ask. I have been building engines since 1968 and not street engines but drag racing, road course and off-road. I have built many VW engines over that time. The parts that need external work, I farm out to machine shops that I trust, regardless if they are for a Small Block Chevy or a VW. Balancing and lightening on my motor will be done by SR and Dietmar. Putting the engine together will be done by me in my shop.

To say that the engine builders build perfect engines that never have problems is flat out wrong. I am sure they stand behind their work and would make it good for the buyer but stuff happens even to the best of them.

Is there no one here who puts their own engines together?

To answer your question, Yes, I am building my own engine and I am proud of it. thank you for asking.

[fvracer27]

Wow.... in other post you are asking questions on how to make power and now your a professional engine builder?

[bobc]

I have rebuilt my race engine several times as it needs it. I have also taken my transmission apart and rebuilt it with new syncroes. I have built many engines in my life but I do it as a hobby and to save money on my car repairs.

[brian]

Back to the original question. If your P&C set are Cofaps they will be a bit soft and inclined to score but will work fine. The Chinese sets have some legality issues, the ring lands are not within spec, and some folks have had pistons break. The Kolbinschmitt sets are much better but a bit rare.

Good luck on your build. I think the cautions you are receiving have more to do with wasted track time and it's relative cost to having an engine built by an experienced vee builder. Entry fees for a couple of weekends are nearing the labor cost of a rebuild. Economics are not everything, but I'm like you and enjoy building my own stuff. Granted, after 40 years of working on VW's and having built hundreds of motors, I'm just now begining to reach the hp levels that can win the Runoffs with my own stuff. Buy the induction system and the learning curve will be much shorter.

[hardingfv32-1]

You kind of blew your cover. Now that we know how good you are, the very 4-5 of us who know how to build a FV race engine AND post on this forum will be much more guarded with our answers. Like any good race engine builder, we can't just give away our hard earned knowledge.

Seriously, it took Brian 30+ years and myself 20 years to get on top of the FV race engine. We also have our own dyno's and flow benches. Are you young enough to spend even 10 years learning? Are you sure the class will be around in 10 years?

Of coarse we have no idea what your budget and racing goals are.

Brian

[tiagosantos]

From all the posts I've seen of Roger so far, I don't think he's going for the win at the Runoffs anytime soon. He looks like an enthusiast that wants to have fun at the club/regional/vintage level, enjoys the cars, the sport, the friendships and isn't looking to spend thousands chasing a win. Kinda like me I understand why he would want to build his own engine, same reason I'd love to build my own engines - except I feel nowhere need qualified or capable. Nor have I the time or inclination to learn..

I don't think it's as big a deal as some of you are making it out to be But I do agree, particularly in my case, that the money saved on building my own engine isn't worth possibly losing a couple weekends due to a mistake..

[SR Racing]

I gotta go with tiagosantos on this. It IS a hobby. If he is having fun, building can be part of that hobby. He may not be able to win the run-offs (nor might he care.) I will be glad to do any of the machiing, lightening, carb jetting and balancing for them. AND I will be happy to give them any info they need to keep the engine alive and make HP. Without an engine dyno, flowbench, shock dyno, wind tunnel, hundreds of hours of track time and lots of money for tires, etc., Penske won't make them a job offer. but they can be having fun. Last I looked that is what this was all about.
There are few secrets that we may not want to share regarding performance, but certainly the items necessary to keep the engine from destroying itself, I will share with anyone. And there insn't anything longevity wise that can't be explained over the phone.

[brian]

A very famous engine builder once said, " there are no secrets, just stuff we really don 't understand." I have no secrets and like Jim will share everything I know.

[hardingfv32-1]

Could there be a more friendly racing group than FV, everyone exchanging their most valuable speed secrets?

I guess everyone assumes that they can win based on their driving talent.

Brian

[brian]

wanna try me?

[SR Racing]

Could there be a more friendly racing group than FV, everyone exchanging their most valuable speed secrets?

I THINK you are being sarcastic here? <g>

But yes, most everyone does share their secrets. You don't see many FV's in the paddock with covers over the car. None of the engine builders seal their engines. (That I know of.)

I guess everyone assumes that they can win based on their driving talent.

Obviously it takes a good engine and car set up. But given that, I will submit once again, that Brad, Mike, Rick, Brandon, Roger, etc. would be up front if they all swapped cars with the back markers.

[smsazzy]

Could there be a more friendly racing group than FV, everyone exchanging their most valuable speed secrets?

I guess everyone assumes that they can win based on their driving talent.

Brian

And i guess you assume you can win on your engineering talent. What's the difference?

[problemchild]

There's two mid-pack Runoff participants (Brian and Bruce) willing to share some info (secrets ?) but none of the other 40+ Runoff competitors. None of the top-20 Runoff engine builders either. Hmmm.....

[smsazzy]

I think classifying Brian and Bruce as mid-packers is uninformed.

Bruce started 2nd last year at the runoffs and ran up fron the entire race until an accident at the very end.

Brian won the Sprint's only 3 years ago, and has finished on the Runoffs podium 3 times, including a 2nd to Bruce Noble by about 0.1 seconds. Oh yah, and he won the overall national points championship for FV in 2010.

[SR Racing]

They are not sealed. Take one apart. The builders know that. Exactly HOW would we keep secrets?
There has been no secret breakthroughs in FV engine stuff in many years. I have been dynoing them (mine and others). They do the same HP and Torque ranges they did 15 years ago. Track records aren't falling yearly. They only differences have been things like the manifold rule interpretation and that's no secret.

[jmattox]

That day when EVERYTHING goes right (engine, suspension setup, tires, brakes (even though my son says he doesn't use them) and my driving ability is up to par) is going to feel really good. Until then, I am going to continue to spend countless hours at a hobby that I enjoy, building the engine for my VEE. Then I will get to spend a half an hour once a month finding out what I need to do better next time. By the way, thanks for all the help and support from everyone who contributed.

John
FV42 CFR

[problemchild]

Chill Steve. I was a back marker. They qualified 16th and 19th in a 37 car grid. All of us have run in the top 5 other years. Maybe we will next year ..... but we were all also-rans in 2010. Bill Noble, Dave Carr, Mike Palermo, Ron Chuck, and Jim Washelaeger don't go on forums and share speed. Neither does Varacins, Siebenaler, or Stout. We all know that you can believe little of what we read on the internet. There is some good info provided on this forum. There is alot of crap too. Deciphering it is the challemge. Knowing the agendas of those posting is a big help. Cheers!

[jpetillo]

What Greg said is hard to argue with. I think the harder someone works on something to gain an advantage, the more reluctant they would be to share the knowledge they've gained. That's pretty much human nature. We're all guilty to some degree. The statements about not trusting information on the internet and understanding agendas is right on as well. There's still a lot to be learned from the discussions. To me, the different points of view are the key. John

[CitationFV21]

It seems there is confusion between a Runoffs winning engine and a good National or Regional one.

If you are starting out, or even an experienced driver from another class, you don't need the best engine - if you feel you do, then go to one of the top builders.

If you want the experience of building your own engine, the important thing is to use the right parts to build an engine that will be reliable and predictable. This often means knowing what parts to by - heads, pistons, rings, valve springs, case, rod bolts, etc. Some parts you will have to buy prepped, like manifold and carb. I am sure Jim S and others will sell good parts, maybe even great parts, but without the flow bench and dyno to fine tune the parts, an assembly of good parts will not be equal to the tuned package.

There was a time in FV where everyone was building their own engine, with many blown engines and overheating problems and lots of DNFs. We don't need to go back there. But if someone has the talent and willingness to build their own engine they should get the best information possible - after all, all the current builders had to start somewhere - right?

ChrisZ

[hardingfv32-1]

How successful someone has been on the track, what their agenda is or if they even race a FV is of little importance. What matters is that the questions being discussed are answered in a logical manner that allows the average competitor to make a judgement about answer's validity. If you are not following the logic of an answer, then challenge it with more questions.

Relying on someone's answers without understanding the reasoning behind them will get you no where in the long run.

Brian

[Speedsport]

I generally follow along on some of these threads to see what the latest and greatest rumors are. I think most people, myself included, are more then willing to help and share information.....up to a point. We gladly share tips and ideas that are considered common knowledge among the FV community that not everyone knows. But some of the little details that make up the last few % are things I don't like to share. I think we all have things that we've learned over the years that we are not in a big hurry to publicly announce. But the majority of people asking for help don't need that type of information anyway, so it all works out in the end.

[jpetillo]

I think Brian H. pretty much nailed it, as did Michael - Okay, Chris too! John

[brian]

I'm fairly convinced that some of the top folks in our class don't participate in the forums for many reasons. Time, is usually the main one and another reason quite honestly, is that many view forum participants as a bunch of lunatics. I know for a fact that if you are on a SCCA board or committee, going on forums is considered suicide.

I'm growing a bit weary myself. I try to give simple answers and let my results speak for themselves. In one breath, I'm criticized for not having proof, since results are irrelevant, or I'm criticized for not being scientific enough for esoteric theory discussions. It appears to be a no win situation, so why bother? Guess it's because I love this class and racing. Take everything with a grain of salt, your results may be different.