Battery charging question

flat tappet
Posts: 80
Joined: December 20th, 2008, 4:43 pm

Battery charging question

Post by flat tappet »

When should I be charging my battery before practice and/or griding before the race?
I must only have a limited number of starts available from the battery and must time that to coinside that with not overheating while waiting to race.

Thanks for your help! :mrgreen:
jpetillo
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Joined: August 26th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Re: Battery charging question

Post by jpetillo »

flat tappet wrote:When should I be charging my battery before practice and/or griding before the race?
I must only have a limited number of starts available from the battery and must time that to coinside that with not overheating while waiting to race.
Thanks for your help!
It's probably overkill, but I always have my smart charger plugged into the car while it's in the paddock. That way there's no thinking about when and no worry. John
Matt
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Joined: June 24th, 2006, 7:55 pm

Re: Battery charging question

Post by Matt »

I made up a cable that I attach to the battery of my tow truck and a quick disconnect on the car. When you attach to both the two batteries will equilibrate to the same voltage and there is no possibility of over heat the battery. You can also keep them connected for any starts in the paddock and that will help take the load off the car battery.
The starts in the paddock usually are the highest draw since the engine is the coldest. When you come off the track just plug the car back in and by the time you need it the battery has recovered. Just remember to disconnect the car when starting the tow truck because then the car is helping to start the tow truck.
You can buy everything you need from McMaster Carr online. Use at least #10 gage wire and copper alligator clips. This set up does not require 110 VAC.

Good Luck
Matt
FV61
SR Racing
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by SR Racing »

Longest life of a battery is achieved by keeping it at a float charge all the time. Anytime the battery drops below it's full level, it starts to sulfate. This limits it's abilty to recharge to its full capacity.
So as John does, keeping it charged all the time with a "smart charger" of some type is a great idea. Probably most effective is to charge it immediately after it comes off the track when it is at its lowest charge level. Sitting unloaded for several hours until the next sesssion is not much of an issue as long as it was fully charged.

We sell the Battery Tender type chargers http://sracing.com/Store/Electrical/Electrical.htm that are great for keeping them fresh for months at a time without overcharging them. They however are a bit slow in bring one up from a complete discharge to full charge.

Matt's idea is also ok if I understand it correctly. However... The battery in a Vee will become damaged if you charge it much greater than a 8-10 amp rate. If your battery in the Vee is very discharged (at about 12.2 volts its pretty gone) and if you plug it into a fully charged car battery (12.6+) volts the initial charge rate can be dozens of amps depending upon the cable resistance. It this case you can damage the smaller battery. It works fine with 2 car batteries since they can take a 50 or 75 amp charge. The small ~17 ah batteries will heat the plates and even burn holes in them.
flat tappet
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Joined: December 20th, 2008, 4:43 pm

Re: Battery charging question

Post by flat tappet »

Thanks guys...Jim, I just purchased the JR and the larger battery tender from you and am about to charge up a spare battery for my new(used LYNX?/Flamingo/Genesis/who knows/who cares/been thru a million tech inspections and has the original Homologation certificate. blah,blah......
fv195
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by fv195 »

I use/have the waterproof battery tender, I plug in when I come off the track, or when ever I can. with the battery tender you can leave it pluged in for long amounts of time. I also have a "jump" battery, I plug in with a quick connect for the extra boost strating when cold. sometimes I'll plug in the jumper and then charge both at one time. like over night at the track.
THOR
running fv#70
flat tappet
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by flat tappet »

fv195 wrote:I use/have the waterproof battery tender, I plug in when I come off the track, or when ever I can. with the battery tender you can leave it pluged in for long amounts of time. I also have a "jump" battery, I plug in with a quick connect for the extra boost strating when cold. sometimes I'll plug in the jumper and then charge both at one time. like over night at the track.
THOR
running fv#70
Thanks for that info. What about keeping a spare charged to swap at the track and then recharge the other "spare"?
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Larry Bradley
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Joined: June 25th, 2006, 12:26 pm

Re: Battery charging question

Post by Larry Bradley »

I usually would go all day Saturday without doing anything.
Then take the battery back to the motel overnite on a slow charger.
LB
Now a promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code.
SR Racing
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by SR Racing »

flat tappet wrote: Thanks for that info. What about keeping a spare charged to swap at the track and then recharge the other "spare"?
Certainly possible. But swapping batteries back and forth in the Vee might be a pain.

You might want to look at the small 12V to 110V inverters available now at cheap prices. A 200W one can be had for $30 or so. That can be plugged into your cars cigarette lighter and you can plug a small charger into it. I assume you don't have a generator? Actually there are 1000W inverters for under $100 so you can run your charger, drills, etc.
flat tappet
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Joined: December 20th, 2008, 4:43 pm

Re: Battery charging question

Post by flat tappet »

Jim....i have a 2 stroke 1200 watt generator so I can charge off of it, although I like your idea of the inverter. Do you carry them?

Thanks,

Bruce
Last edited by flat tappet on February 8th, 2009, 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jpetillo
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Joined: August 26th, 2006, 2:54 pm

Re: Battery charging question

Post by jpetillo »

fv195 wrote:I use/have the waterproof battery tender, I plug in when I come off the track, or when ever I can.
Yes, the waterproof Battery Tenders are a great idea. The non-waterproof Battery Tenders can't be near water. I've lost two of them from wet days at home and they were tucked well under the car during light rain. John
SR Racing
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by SR Racing »

Bruce,

No we don't carry the inverters, but you can find them at most any truck stop or mail order house. Just don't get the Harbor Freight units.
fv195
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by fv195 »

spair battery is a good idea, the "jump" battery I speak of is a backup for the car. so can be swaped out if need be.
yes the water proof battery tender is worth it, can be totally under water and still work. great for rainy days at the track. I will only buy the water proof ones. plan on getting a small generator for the race tracks that don't offer power. Have a small"dorm"frige in my trailer. got to keep the beer cold! so a genny would do me good.
THOR
flat tappet
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by flat tappet »

fv195 wrote:spair battery is a good idea, the "jump" battery I speak of is a backup for the car. so can be swaped out if need be.
yes the water proof battery tender is worth it, can be totally under water and still work. great for rainy days at the track. I will only buy the water proof ones. plan on getting a small generator for the race tracks that don't offer power. Have a small"dorm"frige in my trailer. got to keep the beer cold! so a genny would do me good.
THOR
The small 2 stroke generator i got, I purchased from Amazon.com for appr. $120
flat tappet
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by flat tappet »

SR Racing wrote:
flat tappet wrote: Thanks for that info. What about keeping a spare charged to swap at the track and then recharge the other "spare"?
Certainly possible. But swapping batteries back and forth in the Vee might be a pain.

You might want to look at the small 12V to 110V inverters available now at cheap prices. A 200W one can be had for $30 or so. That can be plugged into your cars cigarette lighter and you can plug a small charger into it. I assume you don't have a generator? Actually there are 1000W inverters for under $100 so you can run your charger, drills, etc.
Jim.....is the small foot print of the batteries you sell typical for most VEE's. The reason I ask is that I got a lawn and tractor battery with the bunch of spare parts purchased with my LYNX and it has a bigger foot print.

Thanks,

Bruce
FVartist
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by FVartist »

I found this to be pretty easy to use and has the added benefit of being quiet. http://www.ccrane.com/more-categories/a ... ource.aspx
Left Coast Formula Car Board
http://norcalfv.proboards.com/index.cgi?
Mad Dog Racing
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by Mad Dog Racing »

I used to use a lawn tractor battery all the time for the jumper, light and cheap. I've even had them in vees years ago. Got a FF once with a wheelchair battery in it. Now I use one for a jumper. Think about it, they are sealed and they are deep cycle, like the trolling batteries. I've recharged one from zero volts, just took a week to do it. Problem, the small one weighs as much as the tractor battery and they aren't cheap, but one will out-last five or more regular batteries.

I like the idea of the inverter, I get tired of the generator running just to trickle charge the battery. I guess the inverter takes care of the surge you get battery-to-battery because you are still going through the hockey-puck charger. If I'm to stay away from Northern Tool, Harbor Freight, etc., who has a good one? I'll google for some ratings. Might even think about trying to hook it to my trailer grid. That way, I could hook up the charger to the car on my way home, just have to remember to turn out the lights. Thanks.
SR Racing
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by SR Racing »

flat tappet wrote:[Jim.....is the small foot print of the batteries you sell typical for most VEE's. The reason I ask is that I got a lawn and tractor battery with the bunch of spare parts purchased with my LYNX and it has a bigger foot print.
Bruce
I think probably 75% of the Vee's out there use a Gel Cell or AGM type battery. (Like the ones on our web site.) They are 17 to 20AH in rating and are probably better for in high vibration usage and can be mounted in any position with no liquid leakage. They are a bit lighter than most lawn tractor type batteries.
However many people do use the lawn tractor batteries and have no problems at all. They are usually cheaper and most have a slightly higher cranking amp capabilty. Probably mounting position flexibilty is the greatest asset of the GelCel/AGM battery. (with some safety advantage)
SR Racing
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by SR Racing »

Mad Dog Racing wrote: If I'm to stay away from Northern Tool, Harbor Freight, etc., who has a good one? I'll google for some ratings. Might even think about trying to hook it to my trailer grid. That way, I could hook up the charger to the car on my way home, just have to remember to turn out the lights. Thanks.
Nothern Tool will have some good ones and many other places. I only mentioned Harbor Freight as a no no,simply because they have zero QC practiced by their stocking gbuyers. They buy the lowest priced goods in every case. Weather it adhers to specsifications or even has any is not an issue at all. Every once in a while you can really find a bargain there. But most everything is pure junk. But a good 1KW 12/120 V converter will be very handy. Be sure and read the specs on the one you buy. Often the 1KW rating is a "peak" rating and the constant use rating may only be 1/2 of that. (500W.) But a good one will be enough to power small power tools, a cooler, battery chargers, 110 V lamps etc. Be sure and remember to start your car/truck once every few hours when the inverter is under heavy use.
tiagosantos
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by tiagosantos »

Thought I'd bring back an old related thread instead of creating a new one -

I've been running my car with a small 12v battery (not really sure what it's from, but it's a wet lead acid battery) and was fine for my novice races (3 sessions over the weekend, so about 6 starts on the car battery - once on the paddock, and once in pre-grid.. Everything else done with the jumper battery). This past weekend was the first time I got through all 6 sessions and my battery died with one session to go.

There might have been some other factors to it (not entirely sure if the battery was fully charged to begin with, we have to keep rotating spots on the battery chargers at the shop, too many cars, not enough power outlets!) but I'd really like to not have it happen again. I've been keeping the car plugged in to the jumper battery between sessions, but since I use the jumper battery to power my electric air compressor as well, I don't know how healthy the jumper was anyway.

I've seen guys use a generator to power a 110v charger - I'm not sure I can stand the noise, though! Maybe an inverter connected to the jumper, but that seems inefficient and might not help with the jumper keeping charge over the weekend. I remember reading something, not sure if it was here or apexspeed as I can't find it again, but some people were using 12v to 12v battery chargers. That sounds like it would be more efficient than 12v to 110v to 12v :) Any ideas?

I suppose I could just use the inverter and take the jumper battery home on Saturday night, eh.. But the damn thing is heavy and I'm lazy that way :)
fv195
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by fv195 »

the newest thing I did was to buy a solar charger, mounted it to the roof of my enclosed trailer, it is a trickle charger so the battery is charging all the time when the sun is out, being in Florida it is quite helpful.
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tiagosantos
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by tiagosantos »

I did think of that, but I don't have an enclosed trailer.. Guess I could build some sort of stand for the solar panel but picking it up might get old real fast :P

I can think of a number of solutions, but having limited room (everything I take to the track needs to fit in the back of my volvo..) and not having any pit crew to speak of (I get lots of help from people at the track, but they're usually busy with their drivers/cars to plug/unplug the jumper battery..) makes it trickier!
SR Racing
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by SR Racing »

An inverter rated at 300W and a battery charger rated at 10A max. Under $100 for the combination and that will work fine. (Make sure the charger is automatic and has a AGM/Gell switch position. )

Never let your battery go low. Charge after every session. Everytime a lead acid battery (standard plate, AGM or Gell) goes below it's float charge it sulfates internally it it sits in that state for any length of time. You will have less full charge each time you do that. If you charge after every session and keep it trickled charged at a float level between races, you will get 4 or more years from your battery. We have 3 renter cars with 3+ year old batteries in each that we practice the above with.
fv22
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Re: Battery charging question

Post by fv22 »

I've got a cheap lead acid Walmart motorcycle battery in my vee. Keep it on a float charger all the time to keep the voltage up and use a Harbor Freight solar charger at the track. The solar charger stays plugged in any time I'm not on track and have never had a low battery problem. I replaced the last battery after 4 years just because I felt I should, not because of any problem with it.
tiagosantos
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Joined: June 20th, 2010, 12:10 am

Re: Battery charging question

Post by tiagosantos »

oh you Florida guys and your sun dependent charging techniques ;) I haven't seen the sun for 3 months now! :P Just kidding..

I think I will try the inverter, since it's cheap and easy. I think as long as I take the jumper battery home at night to charge it up, it'll work great!
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