Is there a way to determine what 3rd gear a transmission has without turning the wheels (tranny is not in car) or tearing the trans apart?
Thanks
John
fv42
Transmissions one more time
Re: Transmissions one more time
John,
There is no reason why you can't use the measurement process for when the gearbox IS in the car. See below - you will need a degree wheel and some method of locking one side of the trannie (axle) while turning the other.
Transmission Gear Ratios
"Type" gear part number trans. type # of teeth O/A ratio gear ratio ring & pinion turns + degrees
Short 4th 113-311-341 sedan full sync 27:24 3.89:1 0.89 4.375 sedan 1 + 340 °
Long 4th 113-311-341 sedan full sync 27:24 3.67:1 0.89 4.125 transp. 1 + 300 °
4th 211-311-341 trans full sync 28:23 3.59:1 0.82 4.375 sedan 1 + 226 °
Super Long 4th 211-311-341 trans full sync 28:23 3.38:1 0.82 4.125 transp. 1 + 248 °
4th 113-309-341 split part sync 28:23 3.63:1 0.82 4.43 split 1 + 293 °
3rd 113-311-275 full sync 22:29 5.77:1 1.32 4.375 sedan 2 + 319 °
3rd 113-311-275 full sync 22:29 5.45:1 1.32 4.125 transp 2 + 261 °
3rd 113-311-275-B full sync 23:29 5.51:1 1.26 4.375 sedan 2 + 273 °
3rd 113-311-275-B full sync 23:29 5.20:1 1.26 4.125 transp 2 + 216 °
3rd 113-311-275-A full sync 23:28 5.34:1 1.22 4.375 sedan 2 + 240 °
3rd 113-311-275-A full sync 23:28 5.08:1 1.22 4.125 transp 2 + 185 °
3rd split part sync 23:28 5.40:1 1.22 4.43 split 2 + 252 °
3rd split part sync 22:27 5.45:1 1.23 4.43 split 2 + 261 °
A. have the competitor raise one rear wheel with a jack so that the tire is about 2 inches clear of the ground.
B. Mount a degree wheel on the main crank pulley (or the trans input shaft).
C. Affix a pointer firmly to the engine (or bellhousing) so it lines up with the degree wheel index and can be read easily.
D. Have the gear selector placed in the 4th gear so that when the suspended rear wheel is rotated the engine will also revolve.
E. Move the engine (or input shaft) so that the pointer lines up with the TDC on the degree wheel.
F. Make a reference mark on the tire (or axle - or hub) which corresponds to a fixed point.
G. Rotate the tire (axle/hub) slowly one full turn while observing the number of degree wheel rotations occur…Count those rotations.
H. Record the number of degrees past TDC on the degree wheel at that point when the tire (axle/hub) has made its one full rotation.
I. Compare these rotations and degrees to those figures included on the table above.
J. Have gear selector placed in 3rd gear and repeat the above 9 steps to determine 3rd gear ratios…
(Note: The differential ratios should be the same for each transmission ratio.)"
I've only done this a couple of times - be sure to go through the process several times to make sure you get a repeatable reading.
Steve
There is no reason why you can't use the measurement process for when the gearbox IS in the car. See below - you will need a degree wheel and some method of locking one side of the trannie (axle) while turning the other.
Transmission Gear Ratios
"Type" gear part number trans. type # of teeth O/A ratio gear ratio ring & pinion turns + degrees
Short 4th 113-311-341 sedan full sync 27:24 3.89:1 0.89 4.375 sedan 1 + 340 °
Long 4th 113-311-341 sedan full sync 27:24 3.67:1 0.89 4.125 transp. 1 + 300 °
4th 211-311-341 trans full sync 28:23 3.59:1 0.82 4.375 sedan 1 + 226 °
Super Long 4th 211-311-341 trans full sync 28:23 3.38:1 0.82 4.125 transp. 1 + 248 °
4th 113-309-341 split part sync 28:23 3.63:1 0.82 4.43 split 1 + 293 °
3rd 113-311-275 full sync 22:29 5.77:1 1.32 4.375 sedan 2 + 319 °
3rd 113-311-275 full sync 22:29 5.45:1 1.32 4.125 transp 2 + 261 °
3rd 113-311-275-B full sync 23:29 5.51:1 1.26 4.375 sedan 2 + 273 °
3rd 113-311-275-B full sync 23:29 5.20:1 1.26 4.125 transp 2 + 216 °
3rd 113-311-275-A full sync 23:28 5.34:1 1.22 4.375 sedan 2 + 240 °
3rd 113-311-275-A full sync 23:28 5.08:1 1.22 4.125 transp 2 + 185 °
3rd split part sync 23:28 5.40:1 1.22 4.43 split 2 + 252 °
3rd split part sync 22:27 5.45:1 1.23 4.43 split 2 + 261 °
A. have the competitor raise one rear wheel with a jack so that the tire is about 2 inches clear of the ground.
B. Mount a degree wheel on the main crank pulley (or the trans input shaft).
C. Affix a pointer firmly to the engine (or bellhousing) so it lines up with the degree wheel index and can be read easily.
D. Have the gear selector placed in the 4th gear so that when the suspended rear wheel is rotated the engine will also revolve.
E. Move the engine (or input shaft) so that the pointer lines up with the TDC on the degree wheel.
F. Make a reference mark on the tire (or axle - or hub) which corresponds to a fixed point.
G. Rotate the tire (axle/hub) slowly one full turn while observing the number of degree wheel rotations occur…Count those rotations.
H. Record the number of degrees past TDC on the degree wheel at that point when the tire (axle/hub) has made its one full rotation.
I. Compare these rotations and degrees to those figures included on the table above.
J. Have gear selector placed in 3rd gear and repeat the above 9 steps to determine 3rd gear ratios…
(Note: The differential ratios should be the same for each transmission ratio.)"
I've only done this a couple of times - be sure to go through the process several times to make sure you get a repeatable reading.
Steve
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
Re: Transmissions one more time - follow up
For those that might be interested, I finally got around to creating a 'real' excel spreadsheet to do the calcs necessary to determine internal gear ratios. There are probably some ratios that I missed, so if you find one let me know. Or if you find any errors in it.
You can download it from my website at
http://www.WedgeRacing.com/fv_trans_ratio_check.xls
I have also added the 1st and 2nd gears for the solo types out there.
Steve
You can download it from my website at
http://www.WedgeRacing.com/fv_trans_ratio_check.xls
I have also added the 1st and 2nd gears for the solo types out there.
Steve
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
Re: Transmissions one more time
I have heard the term "transporter gear" when talking about FV transmissions. Can anyone tell me what this is?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Re: Transmissions one more time
There are three third gears which may be used in FV.
the 1.32
the 1.26
the 1.22 which is the transporter (bus) third gear
Hope this helps
Dietmar
the 1.32
the 1.26
the 1.22 which is the transporter (bus) third gear
Hope this helps
Dietmar
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rstackjd
Re: Transmissions one more time
So which is the "short box" and which is the "long box"?
Thanks
Thanks
Re: Transmissions one more time
The 'Short box' has a 4.375 ratio ring & pinion (8 teeth on pinion, 35 teeth on ring gear). Short box has a higher numerical ratio (slower speed for a given engine rpm), thus a 'short' track transaxle.
The 'Long box' has a 4.125 ratio ring & pinion (8 teeth on pinion, 33 teeth on ring gear). Long box has a lower numerical ration (higher speed for a given engine rpm), thus a 'long' track transaxle.
There is one more VW ring & pinion ratio (8:31) from the later air cooled beetles that is even lower, but that is not legal for FV.
Mike
The 'Long box' has a 4.125 ratio ring & pinion (8 teeth on pinion, 33 teeth on ring gear). Long box has a lower numerical ration (higher speed for a given engine rpm), thus a 'long' track transaxle.
There is one more VW ring & pinion ratio (8:31) from the later air cooled beetles that is even lower, but that is not legal for FV.
Mike
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rstackjd
Re: Transmissions one more time
Thank you! That helpsbrp wrote:The 'Short box' has a 4.375 ratio ring & pinion (8 teeth on pinion, 35 teeth on ring gear). Short box has a higher numerical ratio (slower speed for a given engine rpm), thus a 'short' track transaxle.
The 'Long box' has a 4.125 ratio ring & pinion (8 teeth on pinion, 33 teeth on ring gear). Long box has a lower numerical ration (higher speed for a given engine rpm), thus a 'long' track transaxle.
There is one more VW ring & pinion ratio (8:31) from the later air cooled beetles that is even lower, but that is not legal for FV.
Mike