August Minutes

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Dietmar
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August Minutes

Post by Dietmar »

The FV Ad Hoc Committee met on August 5
Members attending: Barret Hendricks, Stevan Davis, John Petillo, Phillip Holcomb, Alex Bertolucci, Dietmar Bauerle

Guest(s): Fred Clark, Bill Johnson

There having been a lot of discussion on both Apex and the Interchange about the adoption of a spec tire for FV ( again), the Committee had a long discussion regarding past experiences on this topic and the lack of results it produced. In light of things that happened in the past, we decided that we will begin a serious discussion AFTER we receive a formal request from the CRB. This can not happen until the membership submits multiple requests to the CRB for consideration of a spec tire . Both Apex and the Interchange carry information on who to contact and what should be the gist of a member’s request. There is no need to go into elaborate reasons for a specific tire, just a formal request to have a spec tire considered. From there, the CRB will determine if it is appropriate to forward the request to the FSRC who would forward it to the Ad Hoc Committee for our recommendation. No matter what is decided, it will eventually go out for membership vote before any adoption or rules change.

There is concern by several Committee members that a spec tire will slow down the FV cars ,and with the current run groupings in certain regions, present a bigger hazard than what we have now with the speed and braking differentials.

We understand and accept that this is a very “hot” topic in an attempt to try to bring down costs, have something that lasts more than a few sessions, and in the long run might bring back some cars that have been sitting idle for one reason or another.

Several engine builders have submitted orders for German pistons and steps have been taken to place an order for 150 pistons from Germany. Unfortunately, K/S can no longer supply cylinders so that leaves us with the AA brand cylinder as the only alternative. We are waiting for the K/S contact to let us know the shipping costs and then the order will be placed. In the meantime, a Committee member has received a sample of the new AA piston with a 2.5mm ring groove. These pistons have been in the works for several months and have finally arrived for consideration. For the most part, these pistons match the original K/S and Mahle. They are a bit heavier over “stock” by about 6 grams and the wrist pin is also heavier by about the same. One area of concern is the fit of the wrist pin into the piston. It seems loose on one end but satisfactory on the other end. It also seems as if the AA wrist pins might be a little smaller in diameter than the pins supplied with K/S or Mahle pistons.

We have been told that these pistons are now available to anyone wishing to purchase them.

The promotional video that was authorized by the Committee has moved beyond the first cut and a second cut is now available. The film crew has been asked to add some additional footage to include more driver interviews and driver interactions before a final version is made available. We are hoping that this can be done either on the east coast in the coming weeks or wait for another opportunity later this year on the west coast. What has been produced is professionally done and we hope that it will eventually generate interest in FV when it is completed.

No other items were presented or discussed.

Next meeting scheduled for September 2.
DFC17
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Re: August Minutes

Post by DFC17 »

Dietmar wrote:
There is concern by several Committee members that a spec tire will slow down the FV cars ,and with the current run groupings in certain regions, present a bigger hazard than what we have now with the speed and braking differentials.
Really...... Your kidding right?

Slowing down a FV 2.00 seconds a lap by using a harder tire is going to change the average lap speed probably less then 2MPH.

Based on this logic maybe then we should disqualify the drivers that are more then 2.00 seconds slower, per lap, then the pole sitter.

Ridiculous.....
Scott
BLS
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Re: August Minutes

Post by BLS »

DFC17, it is a consideration. Not sure where you get the 2 sec/lap from. Best I can tell from reading various comments is that it would be on the order of 5% slower. On a track with a 1:45 slick tire time that is around 5 seconds, not 2.

I *think* I would favor a spec tire. Depending on what it might be.
Barry
Old Zink FV,
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jpetillo
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Re: August Minutes

Post by jpetillo »

Yes, about 5 seconds a lap slower for that lap time seems to be about right. However, for a given lap time I think there will be a variation in the difference in performance depending on the specific track configuration/conditions. John
fv22
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Re: August Minutes

Post by fv22 »

If we lose 5% lap time due to an inexpensive tire how about getting an inexpensive spec manifold to get the 5% back? Keeps lap times the same as now and will definitely get guys like me back on the track more often. Have not upgraded my manifold since I don't want to spend $1,000 and still have a lesser manifold than others who spent even more for one but would definitely spend $500 for one that will be the same as everyone else's. As far as tires it's a no brainer, if we can all spend less and make parity there also it would make for bigger fields and better racing. I know there are still many other variables but taking those 2 out and decreasing costs at the same time has to help everyone. I'm sure the front runners now will still be the front runners but maybe, just maybe the rest of us can be a little closer and all spend less doing it.
wroché29
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Re: August Minutes

Post by wroché29 »

Thank-you FV22!
It's refreshing to read a post that is logical.
Bill Roché
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hardingfv32
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Re: August Minutes

Post by hardingfv32 »

The SFRegion has used a AR spec tire for over a decade and FV is now dead in the SFR at the Regional level. You can not demonstrate a positive correlation between participation and the use of a spec tire. A spec tire is all about saving money for the current competitor.

Brian
FVartist42
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Re: August Minutes

Post by FVartist42 »

You've assume too much, it is not dead, but then you've not competed in the SF region since you were caught ignoring the spec tire rule over 10 years ago.
DFC17
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Re: August Minutes

Post by DFC17 »

jpetillo wrote:Yes, about 5 seconds a lap slower for that lap time seems to be about right. However, for a given lap time I think there will be a variation in the difference in performance depending on the specific track configuration/conditions. John
John, Have you ever driven on the American Racer Spec Tire? Based on your comment I would guess no.

The chart below shows a speed comparison from Laguna Seca. The red line is my sons fastest lap at the runoffs last year using the Hoosier. The white line is from a regional race that I drove with the AR tire.

The point here is to dispel this idea that the spec tire is "so much slower" that it will cause a safety issue. Just not true. The AR runs 1-2 seconds per lap slower then the Hoosier at the three tracks here in Nor Cal. As a driver I can tell you that I cannot feel the difference in grip levels between the two tires, however, I can see a very small difference in the Lateral G's on the data. I can feel the difference in the side wall flex because the AR is much softer and does require a bit different driving style.

Image
Scott
hardingfv32
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Re: August Minutes

Post by hardingfv32 »

FVartist42 wrote:You've assume too much, it is not dead...
I am sorry but less than 1.5 cars per event Regional is petty much dead.

Brian
BLS
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Re: August Minutes

Post by BLS »

The white line is from a regional race that I drove with the AR tire.
I don't think John was referencing the AR. I know I was not. The 5% is from the Falken DOT radial tire as used by the Canadians and the Challenge cup group.
Barry
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hardingfv32
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Re: August Minutes

Post by hardingfv32 »

DFC17 wrote:Have you ever driven on the American Racer Spec Tire?
There absolutely no reason to do that.

B McCarthy stated that they showed no interest in a FV spec tire. They would not compete favorably during on track testing against a new Hoosier Spec tire. Did AR have anything to offer the FF Spec tire selection process.... no.

Time to move on... try considering something that can actually become the FV Spec tire.

Brian
DFC17
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Re: August Minutes

Post by DFC17 »

hardingfv32 wrote:
FVartist42 wrote:You've assume too much, it is not dead...
I am sorry but less than 1.5 cars per event Regional is petty much dead.

Brian

Well the 6 car average at the western regional majors this year isn't exactly stellar.....

Brian, how many races have you entered in the last two years?

Maybe two?

Where were you at the Runoffs last year which was in your back yard?
Scott
DFC17
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Re: August Minutes

Post by DFC17 »

BLS wrote:
The white line is from a regional race that I drove with the AR tire.
I don't think John was referencing the AR. I know I was not. The 5% is from the Falken DOT radial tire as used by the Canadians and the Challenge cup group.
My sources say the Falcon is running around 2 seconds a lap slower then the AR.

That does come in about 5% slower. Don't really see a problem with that.

Sounds like it might be the best choice at this time.

Sounds a lot better then a 8 heat cycle SM7 Hoosier at twice the price.
Scott
jpetillo
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Re: August Minutes

Post by jpetillo »

BLS wrote:I don't think John was referencing the AR. I know I was not. The 5% is from the Falken DOT radial tire as used by the Canadians and the Challenge cup group.
Correct, I was not referring to the ARs, but the Falkens. I have not driven on the ARs.
hardingfv32
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Re: August Minutes

Post by hardingfv32 »

DFC17 wrote:Well the 6 car average at the western regional majors this year isn't exactly stellar.....how many races have you entered in the last two years?...Where were you at the Runoffs last year which was in your back yard?
My participation in Major events or the Runoffs has some bearing on my ability to provide facts about a possible Spec tire choice? Would you like to expand? Are you questioning the validity of the messenger?

The use of a Spec tire is an effort to save current FV competitors some money and increase durability while maintain performance as close to the current level as possible. No one can demonstrate that an extremely low cost tire will bring back competitors that have stopped racing. The fact is we do not know how to bring them back.

Brian
jpetillo
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Re: August Minutes

Post by jpetillo »

hardingfv32 wrote:No one can demonstrate that an extremely low cost tire will bring back competitors that have stopped racing. The fact is we do not know how to bring them back.
Brian, and what you state is exactly the concern, if that's what we use as the basis for making a decision. I think this suggests that a solution that works best for the current racers should be the priority. John
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