spec tires

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brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

spec tires

Post by brian »

It appears that FF is willl have a spec tire for 2016. The BOD expects to vote on a proposal at the October meeting.

Faced with rising costs and falling participation, I think the time has come for this class to seriously attack the tire issue and provide a proposal to the CRB and BOD.

We have few tire options available for the class and that should make the selection process a bit more simple. As I see it, we have three options available: a DOT treaded option, the existing Hoosier 55 compound or a new Hoosier 60 hard slick. My discussions with American Race tires, manufacturer of the American Racer, to upgrade their existing tire have not proven productive.

With so few options, I think an effective survey of the entire class, both regional and Majors competitors, is a viable option to extensive testing and tire selection process. There are many advantages to having the class decide via survey results versus any formal part of the club testing and selecting a tire.

Rather than beat this to death via the forums, I would like to ask the Ad hoc committee to resurrect the survey done a couple of years ago and update the questions and prepare the survey. In the meantime, I will look to the club and registration vendors to find a viable email list on which to base the distribution.

It's our future and it's up to us to do something.
Last edited by brian on August 5th, 2015, 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
Dietmar
Site Admin
Posts: 631
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 11:56 am

Re: spec tires

Post by Dietmar »

Brian:

If this post is a "formal" request, I will be sure the Committee has it as part of our next meeting agenda.

I would like to hear however either here or via personal e-mail- or you know my number , the issue you have with the American Racer tire (other than holding air) and how you want them to upgrade their existing tire.

Dietmar
www.quixoteracing.com
brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by brian »

While we all agree that the American Racers cost less than Hoosiers, most folks thought they didn't last very long. The couple of hundred dollars in savings wouldn't impact anything if folks were buying tires more often. Serious front runners in SF region were buying new tires almost every weekend. I know some folks liked the AR's, some even preferred them over the Hoosiers, but I didn't see their current tire as an alternative. I talked to the AR folks at the PRI show and they expressed a desire to make their tires more competitive relative the to Hoosiers. They knew about the air loss issue and life expectancies. I talked with them several times and was going to send them some take offs for review, but the communication just trailed away and my last email went unanswered. That does not mean that there shouldn't be an attempt to bring the AR's into the discussion. It just may not be fruitful.

I really think the committee should begin the survey process and act as the clearing house for results. I think we all know that not everyone will agree on outcomes, but if the process is class wide, and relatively democratic, it could help drive entries a bit.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
jphoenix
Posts: 105
Joined: July 12th, 2013, 7:41 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by jphoenix »

Is it possible that making the Hoosiers the spec tire that cost of a set may decrease?

Why do the ARs seem to last longer than the Hoosiers? Are the Hoosiers softer?
Jim Phoenix
2016 Red Mercury FV 44
brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by brian »

The BOD has adopted a policy of not allowing contingency tires in spec tire classes. Contingencies are a marketing tool, if you are the only tire why do the marketing? Not giving tires away will save everyone money not just a few.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
hardingfv32
Posts: 104
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 8:04 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by hardingfv32 »

Bingo...no contingencies

With the FF process fresh in your mind, what is the political process required to instigate a spec tire with SCCA at the time?

What are the exact steps that must be satisfy?

Brian
brian
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Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by brian »

Politically, it's just a matter of the CRB recommending a tire to the BOD for a vote. The survey is critical. It must be representative of the whole class, not just Majors or Runoff folks. It should attempt to ask enough questions to facilitate tire selection and be well written. I believe the survey done a few years ago would be an excellent start.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
jphoenix
Posts: 105
Joined: July 12th, 2013, 7:41 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by jphoenix »

ICSCC here in the Northwest follows FV class rules. I suspect an SCCA class rule requiring a spec tire would also apply to ICSCC since they incorporate by reference SCCA class rules. Is this thinking correct?

In the past ICSCC has mandated a spec tire separate from SCCA rules; so I suppose they could adopt SCCA FV rules and add an exception stating that the spec tire required by SCCA FV GCR is not applicable to ICSCC races.

I would expect a bit more discussion on this than I'm seeing here. Is there a discussion at all on Apexspeed?
Jim Phoenix
2016 Red Mercury FV 44
jphoenix
Posts: 105
Joined: July 12th, 2013, 7:41 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by jphoenix »

Will rain tires remain open? Even if a treaded tire is selected? Not that it matter up here in Seattle where we've had NO rain and none in sight - my new Hoosier rains still wear their labels proudly!

Would the Hoosier 60 compound last longer in a regional environment than the AR's - or perhaps just as long?
Jim Phoenix
2016 Red Mercury FV 44
hardingfv32
Posts: 104
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 8:04 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by hardingfv32 »

The R60's will last longer and as stated above, AR does not sound interested. What are the chances of them making something that could be tested.

It seems to boil down to Hoosier R60 or Falken. While the Falken will last longer and be more cost affective, they probably require a rim change. There will also be a fear of the change to a radial street tire. The R60 will be cheaper because of the contingency ban and represent the smallest change for current drivers.

Seems like an easy survey to frame.

Brian
brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by brian »

I was told a couple of days ago by Hoosier that there is no difference between the R55 and the 60 compound. Unlike the FF folks who were running 25's or 35's, moving to the 60's for us wouldn't make a big difference. The VEEROC's ran years ago in Col. were different. I understand that the FF radial Hooiser 60, that is run in the pro series, is expensive and not a likely candidate for us for the same reasons as above.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
hardingfv32
Posts: 104
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 8:04 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by hardingfv32 »

ok, then Veerock it is from Hoosier.

The Falken tires are 14 or 15". Both cases require new rims that fit the wide 5 pattern. The cost of the rims is covered by the much lower price of the Falken compared to the current price of the Hoosiers.

The survey says...............

1) Do you want a spec tire with lower operating costs?

2) Hoosier Veerock
3) Falken 14"
4) Falken 15" about $20 more per tire more than the 14"

Brian
DFC17
Posts: 14
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 9:42 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by DFC17 »

Brian M,

I am always surprised by your dislike of the American Racer (M & H) FV tire. I have been running them for over 30 years and think it would be the best choice for a spec tire. You claim people say that they don't last long. Who are these people? I have never experienced this. In fact I turned my personal best time on a set of american racers that the cords were just starting to show on the front. They are consistent all the way down and easily provide 20-25 heat cycles. Not to mention that they are almost half the price of the Hoosiers.

I have no idea if AR would be willing to up their production to meet the demand of the entire country but if I were the king of FV it would be my choice. Of course the demand of the entire country in 2016 is probably less tires then SF region used in the mid 80's

Scott
Scott
brian
Posts: 1348
Joined: June 26th, 2006, 12:31 pm

Re: spec tires

Post by brian »

For years, the class has discussed having a spec tire and many think the time has come to pursue a spec tire that would be more durable and reduce costs.

As most of you may know, FF is in the final steps to having a spec tire for 2016. The CRB has requested that we follow the same process as FF.

The following is an outline of the steps the FV class will need to follow:

The first step in this process is to formally communicate to the CRB, via the letter system, that the class wants to have a spec tire. If the CRB receives enough letters to indicate adequate support, they will ask the FV AD HOC Committee to conduct a survey of active racers to determine more specifically what the class wants. Once an idea of the type of tire is desired, request for proposals will be sent out to tire manufacturers. A tire will be chosen based on the responses from manufacturers. It's likely that the choice will be made by the ad hoc committee based on the surveys and the responses from manufacturers. Once the choice has been made, a rule change will be submitted by the CRB to the BOD for approval.

The key in beginning the process will be for every competitor in FV to write a letter to the CRB and simply state that you do or don't support a spec tire for the class. At this stage, there is no reason to be writing the BOD. It's important that discussions about specific tires or concepts be left off these first letters and allow the survey process to concentrate on details.

Many folks believe that the letter system is a voting process and the more letters the better. This is not true. Having friends, family and other non competitors write letters, only lessens the value of the letters to the CRB. Believe me, the CRB isn't easily fooled. I urge everyone to take the time and write your own letter and don't just cut and paste something. In this case, the letters are only to express the desires of the class and initiate the more formal process of selection.

Due to time constraints, it's quite remote that we could have something in place for 2016 but if we don't start, nothing will happen.

Here's the link for your letter. http://www.clubracingboard.com/
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views or opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR.
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