May Minutes

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Dietmar
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Joined: June 24th, 2006, 11:56 am

May Minutes

Post by Dietmar »

The Fv Ad Hoc Committee met on May 7, 2014
Members attending: Steve Oseth, Stevan Davis, Alex Bertolucci, Bruce Livermore, Phillip Holcomb, Dietmar Bauerle
Guest: Fred Clark

Not as a discussion item but rather as an FYI: The Pro Vee race is scheduled for July 4th weekend at Mid-Ohio. Registration is now open and must be completed before June 20. More information is available both on the Interchange and on ApexSpeed

We generated some discussion regarding other classes and some of the issues that they are facing , how they have adapted to new engine formats, and a lot of out loud thinking about how nice it would be to find a simple solution to some of our problems so that we are not , as someone reminded us…still running 1200cc engines.

This brought us to the topic of cylinders. The Ad Hoc Committee has spent several months working with AA through a contact to try to come up with a cylinder that will meet our needs. We now have , in our opinion, a workable cylinder in the AA brand. The narrow shoulder has been addressed, there will be no need for the use of spacers or “O” rings when fitted to the universal case, and the areas typically machined to achieve deck height have also been widened. We are now waiting to hear both from K/S and from AA to see about “stock” pistons. The company that makes the AA piston- now with 2mm rings, has been asked to duplicate an original K/S piston. We are waiting to hear from them . We are also asking K/S if they will/are still making the 77mm piston with 2.5 mm rings. To the Committee, the major hurdle has been overcome with the newly designed AA cylinders meeting our requirements. Now we just need something to “fill the hole”


Disc brakes: For several months the Committee has been addressing membership requests for ball joint beams and disc brakes as an option in the FV class. The membership was asked by the CRB to write in to express their opinion for or against this possible addition to the FV rules and we do not know the exact results. In any case, the ad Hoc Committee was asked for input as to whether this was a viable option and to what extent the rules for FV should be changed to include ball joint beams/ disc brakes. We have now submitted our recommendations and they appear below. They differ in some respects from the draft version that was recently published in the Preliminary CRB minutes. However, they are more in line with the "What Do You Think" question put to the membership by the CRB in the April FasTrack and with the previous Committee concepts. We apologize for the confusion.

Additions to FV rules: Disk Brakes and Ball Joint Beam

9.1.1.C.2 (Weight and Dimensions)
Minimum weight as qualified or raced, with driver: 1025 lbs; 1050 with cars equipped with disk brakes/balljoint beams.

9.1.1.C.3.A (Suspension)
12. VW Type 1 ball joint front suspensions may be used under the following conditions.
a. Disc brakes shall be used on the front axle.
b. Lugs may be welded, brackets attached by welding or otherwise, and holes drilled in the ball joint H-beam to permit attachment of the beam to the chassis, and other components wholly or partially to the beam.
c. Front spring(s) are unrestricted except that the front suspension lifting spring(s) must be a continuous unit measuring 37.63” (+ or - .25”) in length, and be completely housed internal of the torsion spring tube(s). The trailing arm socket may be modified to allow a spring or anti-sway bar to be removed from the car without removing the trailing arm. At least 1 spring pack shall be retained as the primary spring media for the front suspension. Replacement of the torsion bar rubbers with spacers of another material is permitted. Coil springs are not permitted.
d. Removal or substitution of the shock towers above the upper H-beam tube is permitted.
e. The use of any direct acting tube type shock absorber(s) is allowed. The upper mounting point shall be to the H-beam at or above the top of the upper H-beam tube and a maximum of 1” inboard of the center of the shock tower. The lower mounting point shall act through the standard mounting point on the trailing arm. Spring shock and linkage activated shocks are prohibited. Bump rubbers with a maximum length of 2 ½” may be used to protect the shock(s)/chassis from bottoming. Use of related bump rubber packing washers/solid spacers is free.
f. The use of any anti-sway bars, internal or external is permitted including external or internal mounting hardware, and trailing arm locating spacers. The anti-sway bar fitted as part of the standard suspension may be removed. Front sway bars may not be cockpit adjustable. Front suspension Z-bars are not permitted.
g. Installation of 1 ride height adjuster per beam tube, constructed for use with standard VW spring packs allowing rotation of the spring pack is allowed. No cockpit adjustment of ride height is permitted.
h. Removal of the brake backing plates is permitted.
i. Camber/caster eccentric adjusting nut may be replaced with an aftermarket nut of different design. Caster, camber and toe settings are free.
j. Any ferrous wheel bearings that fit in the VW type 1 spindles and disk brake hubs without modification are allowed.
k. The steering column may be altered or replaced. Steering wheel is free and may be detachable. Steering mechanism shall be a standard Type 1 VW steering gearbox or direct replacement. The pitman arm is free. Tie rods must attach to the spindle using the existing steering arm, a modified steering arm, or a suitable new or modified bracket welded to the spindle. Ball joints in the tie rods may be replaced with rod ends.

9.1.1.C.3. (Suspension)
C. Wheels for link pin equipped cars shall be standard fifteen (15) inch X 4J as used on the 1200cc and 1300cc VW sedan as defined herein, or any steel (15) inch X 4.5J wheel within the track dimensions of C.2. Wheels may be balanced only by the use of standard automotive balance weights (adhesive or clip on). Hub cap clips shall be removed.
D. Front wheels for disk brake/ball joint equipped cars shall be standard VW Type 1 15” four bolt steel wheels (or direct replacement).



9.1.1.C.4. (Brakes)
D. Disk brakes are allowed under the following conditions
1. VW Type 1 ball joint front suspension shall be used.
2. Standard VW Type 1 disk brake components must be used, including any standard VW Type 1 original or aftermarket direct replacement brake caliper constructed of cast iron material. Front rotor minimum weight shall be 13.0 lbs each without wheel mounting studs. Removal of material from the caliper body is not allowed.
3. Any type pad material may be used on the standard VW Type 1 brake pads.
4. Adapter plates may be fitted to allow mounting of front or rear brake caliper.
5. Cross drilling or grooving of rotors is not permitted.
6. Rear brake drum assemblies may be removed and replaced with one-piece cast iron rear brake rotors with machined-in rear axle splines. Rear calipers shall be standard VW Type 1 original or aftermarket direct replacement caliper. Caliper mounting is free. Min. rotor weight: 15.0 lbs each, without wheel mounting studs. On disc brake equipped cars, standard 4 bolt Type 1 drums and wheels may be substituted for the 5 bolt VW drums on the rear axle only. 4 bolt rear drums may be modified to fit the axle spline.
7. The car shall be equipped with a dual braking system operated by a single control. In case of failure at any point in the system, effective braking power shall be maintained on at least two wheels. A separate hand brake is not required. Removal of the hand brake and operating mechanism is permitted.
8. Wheel mounting lug bolts may be replaced with studs
9. All components must remain within the safety tolerances and minimum dimensions established by the component manufacturer.


No other topics were presented or discussed.

Next meeting scheduled for June 4
BLS
Posts: 412
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Re: May Minutes

Post by BLS »

Dietmar,

Is the thinking for allowing 4 bolt rear drums for front disc/BJ beam cars to allow the same wheels front and rear when you do not wish to use discs at the back?

Thanks,
Barry
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
Dietmar
Site Admin
Posts: 631
Joined: June 24th, 2006, 11:56 am

Re: May Minutes

Post by Dietmar »

Barry:

This is correct.

Dietmar
BLS
Posts: 412
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm

Re: May Minutes

Post by BLS »

Thanks Dietmar
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
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