December meeting

[Dietmar]

The FV Ad Hoc Committee met on December 23.
Members attending:
Steve Oseth, Bruce Livermore, Stevan Davis, Dietmar Bauerle

Guest: Fred Clark.

The entire meeting was devoted to discussing the FV intake manifold.

We have not received a sample of the spec manifold from Australia, but we have received some drawings with specific dimensions. We are still hoping for a sample soon.

We had asked for the FV community to measure their manifolds. We provided written directions as well as a visual description of how to obtain the measurements. In addition to the Committee members, we have received input from about 20 members . Some engine builders, manifold makers and a few individuals have provided data on multiple manifolds. We sincerely thank all who have contibuted to the data collection effort to date. Including the Committee’s input, we now have data on 93 manifolds from which to draw our conclusions. We are guessing that there are considerably more manifolds out there in use. We would love to have even more information.

Bruce Livermore compiled the data on a spread sheet as well as providing the Committee with visual graphs (histograms).

It became very obvious that there was a large variance in the bend diameter measurements. This will be a major focus of our discussion at a future meeting.


The major topic at this meeting was the distance from bend to bend. Although we have not agreed to any fixed number, we have agreed that a small number of manifolds currently in use stand apart from the rest and exceed the dimensional limits that we are considering for recommendation- meaning that they are too short from bend to bend. The concern here is that the start of the "bend" is being moved inward towards the downtube by oversized ball sizing, effectively shortening the length of the "horizontal tube" that must meet the .994" OD requirement.

As we discussed the data and issues before us, the difficulty of enforcably controlling modifications to VW manifolds became clearer for all of us. We did agree that IF we stay with a modified VW manifold we will have to propose rules which will not only be acceptable by the membership, but also allow for ease of determining compliance. This is not the case at this time.

We will continue to accept data from the community. We have had several people comment that their manifold is currently on the car and that it is too much trouble to remove it to take measurements. Please don't let this keep you from providing the data that we really need to make a recommendation. We have also been told that some people are reluctant to supply the information because their names will be attached- we have stated and restate now that no names will be made pubic. We are not on a witch hunt here- we are trying to get information so that we can make a recommendation to keep as many manifolds currently being used from become obsolete, yet we are NOT getting the help that we desperately need. If you haven't sent in data on your manifold(s), please do so now. The larger the sample we have to evaluate, the easier it will be for us to make our recommendations on how to move forward on this issue.

No other items were submitted or discussed.

Next meeting is scheduled for January 27

[brian]

I spoke with a CRB member at the PRI show and he said his preference was that if we go to a spec manifold that he would prefer to make it mandatory. I told him that was a terrible idea and it would force some folks off the track. Whatever we do, the spec manifold should not be required and if it is clearly better than existing manifolds, it will become a must have. I know that there has been talk of a restrictor plate and I hope that is pursued.

[FVartist]

Here is a link to pictures of the Australian spec Manifold http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy108/sabre1fv/ These were taken at Ron Chucks Shop. I will let the photographer, if he wishes to identify himself. The Manifold is 1.125" stainless, stock is .995".

[cendiv37]

Just to clarify. The tubing is actually 1.25 OD by approximately 1.125 ID throughout (down tube and cross tubes). All openings are nearly that same 1.125 ID (carb flange about 1.130, head ports about 1.125.). It is very robust to put it mildly. I weighs about 3 pounds (vs 1.5 pounds for a race prepped VW part). It was designed with a goal of flowing about 12% more than a prepped VW part (in 2004). The Aussies had multiple goals in deciding its design, including making a stepwise increase in 1200 performance. We are not considering doing that here unless directed to do so by the membership. We just wanted to see it and evaluate it as an example of what could be done.

Since we obtained it about the 1st of the year, we have circulated it to Dave Carr, Mike Kochanski, myself, Dietmar, Fast Forward Tech, Ron Chuck and will get it to Quicksilver and Noble (at least) before we have to ship it back to OZ at the end of the month. We are trying to collect data on how it performs relative to good existing manifolds (both flow and dyno comparisons where possible) including "muzzling" it with various sized restrictor plates. We hope to collect all the data and expert input both pro and con to mull over.

We do not have to duplicate it either from a performance or construction standpoint. But it represents another reference point.