FV future #2 wheel dimensions

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CitationFV21
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Joined: July 6th, 2006, 10:49 pm

FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by CitationFV21 »

2nd of a Series

Okay we have just had a successful event (SCCA Runoffs) where we established our class as the largest formula class there, and attracted new blood from karting, one of whom is the son of a Indy 500 winner.

To keep FV relevant, and yet also a entry level class, I want to propose some changes and discuss the pros and cons. I would like to keep each thread factual and focused. If there is another idea we can break it off into its own thread.

The threads must be self-policing. If someone writes something that does not belong to the thread - DO NOT RESPOND.

If the person feels the point is valid they can pm me to start a new thread, or they can start their own. Hey, I can dream can't I?

Okay, for idea # 2.

I propose that the wheel dimensions for FV stay just as they are - 15” diameter and either 4” or 4.5”. The open part is should we allow alternate wheels of these dimensions in FV

Reasons:

If you made skis 1 foot wide, would they still be skis? If a baseball bat was the diameter of a basketball would it still be a baseball bat? So why does FV need wider tires?

The current size tires balance out the existing horsepower and can even handle a little more. The aero of the smaller tire allows a FV to get to reasonable speeds for an entry level class while still creating enough drag for drafting.

If we are looking for a spec tire, a harder compound would not slow the cars down much, if at all, while extending the life so most competitors could run a full season easy on a set of tires and have something left over for practice.

Now the 64K question – do we need another wheel in FV? Interesting enough, aluminum wheels might be heavier that what we have, less aerodynamic, and more prone to damage.

Here is one possible wheel I found, although if we were to allow other wheels, I assume some manufacturer will step up and provide one for our needs: http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2016/264.html

Possible issues.

Are there enough wheels out there for FV to grow? I think there is, when you figure that many of us have stockpiles of wheels. Most of the “bent” or out-of-round wheels should be able to be fixed. We may throw a beam away (we shouldn’t) when bent, but wheels can be repaired.

Okay, time to comment. Do you feel we should:
1. Keep FV wheels at the current size?
2. Allow alternate wheels that meet the dimensional specs?

If the results are positive, then they can be submitted to the new ad hock committee or put up for a class vote.

Chris Z
Citation #23
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Re: FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by sharplikestump »

Another good topic. I personally fully support limiting the class to the existing factory style, steel wheel for the following reasons: durability, cost effectiveness, uniformity, strength, ability to repair, along with them being a symbol of the cars that we are racing, but that is just my opinion.
Mike P.
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Re: FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by FV80 »

Chris,
Despite Mike's feelings, *I* think it would be a good idea to allow new (flashy type) wheels in the class... as long as they were not an advantage performance wise. Off the top of my head, I can't recall the weight of our original standard wheels, but it seems that the weights would be pretty close for the ones in your link. There might be some issue with the offset - I also don't know what the offset of the FV wheels is....
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
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Re: FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by sharplikestump »

Steve, I hope you know by now that I have a lot of respect for your opinion.
Having said that, I have to say that IMO the wheel issue could be a real Pandora's box. Obviously the rotational mass (weight) is an issue, and the more you can reduce that wt. out near the periphery the bigger the advantage you will have . The logical approach to controlling this is to dictate a min. wt. W/O revealing a confidence, I can tell you with certainty that the alloy wheel issue then becomes a tool to gain an unfair advantage. For fairness and safety, the weight is set somewhere in the neighborhood of the stock wheel. Sounds good at first....until someone comes up with a flimsy rim and a cast iron center plate. IT HAS BEEN DONE. Barring that, A wheel could certainly be formed, achieving a % of that stated advantage. That is really the main objection that I have. Make any sense?
BLS
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Re: FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by BLS »

An alternative spec wheel, one off the shelf, would eliminate the issue.
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
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Re: FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by sharplikestump »

Steve,
As long as there was a single spec alloy rim that matched the acceleration, deceleration characteristics, and did not turn more readily than the factory (steel) rims, I see nothing wrong with allowing them also.
Do you know if they would be available in the two widths that we are allowed presently?
FV80
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Re: FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by FV80 »

I doubt we could ever MATCH all those parameters, but there is a limit as to what could be gained with a wheel that was "about" the same overall weight - especially if it was a specific (or several possible specifics) that would approximately match those in the original link that Chris posted. If someone were to fabricate some wheel with most of the weight in the center, it is highly unlikely (unless it was multimaterial) that the outer rim would hold up to the stresses of Vee racing. However, that could easily be avoided by a 'spec list' of allowed wheels.

I wouldn't say there would be NO DIFFERENCE with more or less 'standard' wheel as described in Chris's link, but I doubt it would be measurable. The big difference IMHO might be the backspacing. We would need to find wheel(s) with the same backspacing and width as the currently allowed VW wheels.

Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge and now a Vortech, FV80
jpetillo
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Re: FV future #2 wheel dimensions

Post by jpetillo »

When we looked into this a few years back, none of the aftermarket alloy wheels we found were as low a weight as the current steel wheels. None also had as favorable an offset as the stock wheels.
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