"new" carbotech shoes

[Speedsport]

Can anyone who has run some early races and tried the new replacement material from Carbotech provide some feedback? Any direct comparisons made? (Old shoes Vs. New shoes back to back, assuming proper drum fit on each)

Thanks

[Bob Posner]

Has anyone installed the new shoes? I called Monday and was told no new shoes have been assembled.

[Speedsport]

My understanding is Carbotech made a few sets and have given them out for testing purposes ahead of the production release.

[jferreira]

Any update on the testing and the availability?

[FV80]

I have no info on availability of Carbotechs, but am curious to know if anyone has tried the KFP shoes that Averill Racing Products sells? I have brief reports on Porterfield - R4-S compound won't cut it, R4 compound is a solid maybe - hasn't been tried as far as I know at places with HIGH braking requirements (COTA and Road America to name 2). Was tried at Atlanta (not by me) and was "adequate", but not stellar if I understood correctly.

My personal experience with the new CT shoe compound is that it is NOT adequate for COTA or RA ... at least for those running at the front. If you are 2 seconds or more off the pace, it would probably be just fine.

Steve, FV80

[hardingfv32-1]

Will a great number of competitors need to waste serious money finding new competitive brake shoes before a switch to disc brakes gets any traction?

Any chance the class could make a change before all the brake shoe money is wasted or is our decision process as antiquated as our cars?

Brian

[tiagosantos]

Must.resist.commenting..on.brake.stuff..

[RickyBobby]

As much logical sense as this makes (IMHO), we probably won't see this in our lifetime.

Will a great number of competitors need to waste serious money finding new competitive brake shoes before a switch to disc brakes gets any traction?

Any chance the class could make a change before all the brake shoe money is wasted or is our decision process as antiquated as our cars?

Brian

[Speedsport]

Steve - can you elaborate on why you weren't too happy with the new Carbotech shoes?

[FV80]

Steve - can you elaborate on why you weren't too happy with the new Carbotech shoes?

They wouldn't "woe the car down" in the time/space I needed at the end of the long straight at COTA. I changed to the old CT compound and it was night and day better...

Steve, FV80

[Speedsport]

They wouldn't "woe the car down" in the time/space I needed at the end of the long straight at COTA. I changed to the old CT compound and it was night and day better...

Is it possible that the older shoes just fit the drums better and had more contact area vs. the new shoes that didn't have much time on them?

[cendiv37]

"is our decision process as antiquated as our cars?"
Yup. A time proven truth about FV...

[FV80]

They wouldn't "woe the car down" in the time/space I needed at the end of the long straight at COTA. I changed to the old CT compound and it was night and day better...

Is it possible that the older shoes just fit the drums better and had more contact area vs. the new shoes that didn't have much time on them?

Both sets were well bedded in and matched arc pretty well. That was not part of the problem. I should add that the new compound actually worked quite well.. except in the extreme case, where the older compound JUMPED out at me as clearly superior.
Steve, FV80

[hardingfv32-1]

It sounds like the new CT shoes are staring to fade at higher levels of braking. Most shoes act just fine 'until' they start to fade.

Brian

[FV80]

It sounds like the new CT shoes are staring to fade at higher levels of braking. Most shoes act just fine 'until' they start to fade.

Brian

Don't think I would call it 'fade' .. they just didn't EVER work like I would have liked .. at the HIGH braking level.
Steve, FV80

[CenDiv20]

Are there any alternatives to these "new" carbotech shoes that work better?

[tiagosantos]

*cough*discbrakes*cough*

Sorry, what was that? Oh.. There are other $$$ brake shoes out there, like the Porterfields and the KFP's that Steve mentioned. I'm more curious about the alternative custom shoes that Brian M. talked about a month ago, they sounded a bit more in my price range. I still have a set of brand new old Carbotechs, which at the rate I'm going, will last me for the next two years - or given how rare the damn things are getting, I might sell them for a squazillion dollars!

[fvracer27]

*cough*discbrakes*cough*

Sorry, what was that? Oh.. There are other $$$ brake shoes out there, like the Porterfields and the KFP's that Steve mentioned. I'm more curious about the alternative custom shoes that Brian M. talked about a month ago, they sounded a bit more in my price range. I still have a set of brand new old Carbotechs, which at the rate I'm going, will last me for the next two years - or given how rare the damn things are getting, I might sell them for a squazillion dollars!

How about for once we keep the thread focus on the topic and not bring up crap that has been beaten to death. We have drum brakes, those are the rules and we are talking about brake shoes not about changing the rules that is it's own issue.

[FV80]

Take it easy, Mark.. Tiago is just having FUN with us. After all, we are all SUPPOSED to be having fun doing this, right ?
Steve, FV80

[tiagosantos]

I wrote about 70 words regarding brake shoes and 2 words for disc brakes. Seems like I hit a sore spot, Mark!

I was having fun with it, mostly just reveling in the ridiculousness of the situation. I won't try to make my point again, as I'm sure by now you know very well what I'd rather do than spending $400 on brake shoes every year..

Anyway - did anyone talk to Brian McCarthy about the brake shoes he mentioned a while ago? I won't be racing for a while so no point in getting a set yet, but I'd be curious to hear if someone tries them out.

Sometime last year I went to a local old school brake shop and they say the can line our shoes with a fairly big list of compounds, the prices were about $25 per shoe if I remember right. It's a reasonable price, but at the time I didn't feel like spending $100 on an unknown.

[fvracer27]

Just would like to report this year I have tested both Portifield compounds

R4 compound is very very hard and required a excessive among of brake pressure and still was not slowing the car down.
RD4 compound was then sent to me at no charge (Portifield was extremely helpful and accommodating) this compound was 100% better and to be honest I could not tell a difference between them and the old Carbotech compound except the price I believe they run $119 a set. I ran these at the Glen (brakes not used to much here) and they were awesome maybe to awesome (I was slow). Before reporting I wanted to test on a track I was more filmilar with and a track that is hard on brakes which is NHMS and they never missed a beat. I could enter turn 3 faster and deeper than ever and still get the car slowed down before turning in some case I had to accelerate again.

I adjusted these shoes once when I put them on, checked them once at the glen went 1 click more. Check between race weekends still were perfect and at NHMS I had to back the rears off 1 click as there was a slight drag when they got hot because of the high braking there. I suspect the will not need much adjusting from here and they look like they wear extremely well and seem pretty easy on drums with not much brake dust.


Brake problem solved....well as long as you have 8 minutes and you know how to use a screw driver to adjust them

[Matt Clark]

Mark,
Are you saying they are $119 for all 4 corners?

[fvracer27]

Mark,
Are you saying they are $119 for all 4 corners?

$119 for the front or rear so $240 all 4 corners but I'm sure you can get 2 maybe 3 years out of them. I got 2 from the carbotechs and they destroyed my drums and always created a ton of brakes dust.

[FVartist42]

I've tested the Porterfields too and found the R4 compound to be useless for racing, but the RD4 after being used at Road America and Fontana were good, but when used at Thunderhill, all four corners swelled and locked up. I called Porterfield about this and they had no answer to my inquires and no offer of replacement.

[Matt Clark]

OK. $240 isn't horrific, but still pricey for what we have. While we are talking shoes again, what all are our options (besides discs) anymore? So far, I have seen the following options mentioned this summer here & in these threads.....

interchange/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5088

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53797


Porterfield R4:
easy on drums, not the greatest stopping power

Porterfield RD4:
easy on drums, good stopping power, grows/drags with heat?

Carbotechs:
expensive, low stopping power

TCM (Chinese):
low cost, slightly lower stopping power, unknown durability

unknown NASCAR supplier (kevlar?):
unknown performance/price