This is notice that I am looking into the feasibility of a Spec or Club FV regional class for the SE Div. I contacted an official from my region and the query got quickly distributed which was not my original intent. So this is just a heads up that there is a guy (me) in the SE that is out asking questions. The cornerstone is the spec tire idea that has been discussed on this board a number of times over the years.
Below is the bulk of the note that I sent. The ideas are starting points only. Please don’t flame me on specifics just yet as I was just trying to ask … IF we wanted to do something like this then what would be the official steps. I am going to try and get the AR info tomorrow or as soon as I can. Once I get some specific info we can see if there is enough interest to start haggling over details or various alternatives.
Here are some rough ideas for a Spec/Club FV class for SE Div. We would follow GCR rules for FV on all but the following items:
1. Spec Tire. Right now the thinking is using an American Racer slick that is the same size as we currently use and mounts on our existing rims. This is primarily a cost saving spec. as these tires are roughly 35%-50% cheaper than the GY/Hoosier tires we currently use. These have been used by the San Fran SCCA region for about 10 yrs as a regional spec FV tire and also by several west coast sports car clubs. They slightly off from GY or Hoosier grip wise probably somewhere in the 1-2 secs. per lap range. They are more consistent over their life which is, depending on who you talk to, either equal to GY/Hoosier or twice as long or longer. We would allow any tire for practice or even qualifying to allow people to use up their current tire stock pile. Any rain tire would be allowed if declared a Rain Race prior to the race.
2. Raise minimum weight. Raise from current 1025 to say 1050. Many can't ever get to minimum weight in their cars no matter what they do. It's seen as an exclusionary weight limit to some.
3. Allow pump gas. This does not allow hopped up gas. I know why the current rule is in place and the fact that we couldn't really test for hopped up gas if we allow pump gas. I don't believe regional racers should have to shoulder added cost simply to fill the gap of testing. We should be able to word this correctly and just say "you don't do it". My understanding is that you can smell hopped up fuel and so perhaps we'll be forced to put the scarlet letter on them if they break the rule. Maybe we can't do this in National racing until we can enforce it but hopefully we could do this at the regional level.
The idea would we be to continue to have the normal FV class but to have this Spec/Club class for those who wanted to reduce their expenses and most likely a little more level playing field with the tire variable reduced. The spec tire will be the cornerstone of this idea and without it there will be nothing really to pursue. The hope is that NCR would recognize the class and bring before the SE Div to get buy in by the division and SARRC. We hope to encourage drivers to come out more often and also get some out that may be sitting on the sidelines.
What I am looking from you is to get an idea of the process involved. Are there areas that we can and can't deviate from GCR rules? What is the timing and requirements for us getting this organized?
Somebody challenged me to step up and get the ball rolling in the SE. So..... I'll pass that challenge on to you. If it goes nowhere, no big deal. Nothing wasted other than a little bit of time and some phone calls.
Your ideas sound good to me. Not so sure about the pump gas though since I have heard it is more corrosive to a fuel cell. Might not be worth saving a few bucks on fuel and having to replace a $500 or more cell more frequently. That will have to be looked into. I drain cell between races so maybe it won't make a difference anyway??? I always use avgas, the difference in price has not been too bad, although I'll find out the latest price today when I get some for this weekend.
Cheaper, longer lasting tires and higher minimum weight is fine with me!
Bob
Good point on the cells. All this bears investigating. That idea really came as a brainstorming idea. You are right that the cost savings being relatively small would not be worth additional risk. Having said that though, the rule idea wasn't meant to MANDATE pump gas but to simply allow it.
According to Fuel Safe and ATL, their cells are fine with pump gas up to 10% alky. Both recommend long term storing of the cell filled to the top with fuel OR totally empty. When half full (as an example), the gasses at the top tend to react with the foam filler.
Fuel Safe says that they are aware of several bodies using E85 (85% alky) in their cells with no problems so far. They however, will not recommend it at this time.
Needless to say the GA distributor for AR was not real up on the FV tires. I will talk to them again next Monday or Tuesday.
Jim, thanks for the info. I kind of grasped that from their websites but appreciate the details. I seem to remember a fuel cell thread in the last 6 months or so.
For those who will be there, see you at Road Atlanta tomorrow.
I met with Butch Kummer Sat. evening at the race. He is on the Atlanta Region board, GTA driver, race chairman, etc. Nice guy and it was a very positive discussion. Here were my take-aways.
Bottom line is that any new class needs to translate into more total race entries. Should this or any similar idea move forward it will have to end up with some estimate of the number of additional entries it will generate.
We are too late in the year to get anything done at the division level due to the mid-year planning meeting being next weekend. Some ideas were that we could get a few of the regions to recognize the class next year so we could demonstrate participation. We could create our own points series and track even those racing where the class wasn't recognized yet. We could be creative.
At some point we need a name for the class. Spec FV was the one not recommended since we weren't really a spec class or trying to create one. CFV, FVX, and others were mentioned. They got funnier the more we drank.
Probably the most exciting suggestion came from Butch. Due to his position with the ARRC race he said that they would create a class for us for that event if we can get a pretty firm commitment from at least (was it 5 or 7?) drivers to show up. So ANYONE in ANY division that was trying to get this ball rolling could come. We would run with the FSTs and CF guys and whoever is in that run group. This is in early Nov and is a 3 day event Fri - Sun. He said we would practice/qualify on Friday and race on Sat. I've never been but I know it's a huge event. We would have a deadline of Sept. 1 to have rules and commitments made for him to set this up for the ARRC.
Spoke with a GY guy and have to follow up to see if they still have the 600s. It isn't shown in the catalog as available in our tires. Perhaps provide choice of multiple harder compound tires. Just trying to look at all the possible options. I know someone mentioned Hoosier would make VROCs for a minimum order of 25 sets. I don't know if anyone has any comparison data/impressions of these various hard compound tires.
That's all I've got for now. Steve, did I miss anything?
Lee
Lee,
That seems to cover it, but I would suggest that you MIGHT want to 'open the window' on tires for the first event at the ARRC - if you have one. It might be a bit difficult to get everyone over on the same new tire that quickly. The other 2 items are relatively easy. You could allow GY 600's (if anyone has some), the Hoosier VROC or possibly another older tire ... not sure about Hoosier compound numbers ... do they offer anything harder than the 55? Or the AR's. In the end, it might not be "fair" to all, but you could still have an event and the rules could stipulate that this (the ARRC) is a PRE series race and that the real tire to be required following the ARRC would be 'something else' (AR?).
It would be nice to find that you had 10 guys or so that would be interested. Of course, close by regions could certainly participate in SEDIV races using this formula.
Something else to pursue would be the guys that have 'given up' on Vee as it is and have parked their cars. Not sure how you find them...
Steve
(Updated 7/31 with more GY info)
The following is the tire info I gathered. I will just add to this reply as it is completed.
Goodyear - Competition Tire South. Spoke to Eric Rang.(Updated info from second conversation) He said that R600 are not being produced for FV and in fact he just destroyed some sets last fall I think it was because they were so old. The standard GY threshold for producing a tire is 100 but he has gotten the ok from Akron that they could do 50. That would mean 50 fronts and 50 rears. He didn't think any distributors still had any 600s. He is looking to other distributors to find a R475 rear just to fill out a set that he has of those. He's not sure if anyone has any of those either. He is going to check with the factory to see if they would consider any lower commitment level to produce the 600. On further discussion Eric said that his recommendation would be to use a R475 and not the R600. He said the 600 is VERY hard and they wouldn't be much fun in the cooler temps of spring and fall. Fred Clark has evidently had experince with this tire so he may be a good one to pick for an opinion. He added that GY would provide a contingency plan for us.
Hoosier - Appalachian Race Tire. Spoke with the GM, Rodney Perry. Had a good discussion. He'd spoken to another driver so he knew I was coming. The 25 set commitment as posted elsewhere is the number for them to produce a batch of VROCs. He is definitely behind our class (FV) and would like to be involved. He offered the same deal as they gave CF who chose Hoosier for their spec tire - 15% discount on tires. Or they could a contingency even though they would be the spec tire. CF guys chose the discount to spread the money evenly. His experience with the CF guys leaves him doubting that a spec tire will fill up the grids. He feels that CF has been a failure.
He also mentioned Bob Tupper and what he has been doing in the Mid Atlantic. He thinks that might be a better way to go since it appears to be successful. That certainly bears a detailed discussion of it's own.
American Racer - Jack McCoy Ent. in Modesto, CA. Spoke with Bob Martin. They are the supplier for the all the west coast guys using ARs. Prices he quoted were just under $400 a set plus a $10 handling fee. Later I wasn't sure if the fee was per tire or per set. He was willing to work with distributors on the East Coast or handle it himself if we couldn't get a distributor to work with us.
American Racer - Jimmy Smith Racing Tires in Marietta, GA. Spoke with Allen Smith(?). They of course don't currently do anything with SCCA. He faxed me a quote of $100/front and $109/rear. He gave options that they do with other race classes/clubs. The one idea of interest was what they do with a group of sprint car guys in the LA area. There is a series fee added on the price of each tire. They collect and hold this money to be given back for the payout for the points series. He noted that the AR factory has 68 fronts and 72 rears on hand. I am going to follow up with him on Monday to make sure there aren't other fees that aren't in the quote. Shipping weight is 42 lbs and I calculate from UPS that it would be ~$25 to get them shipped to Hickory, NC for me.
Summary: This would rule out GY and Hoosier for the SEDiv as options because I can't see us getting the commitment levels for even one of them let alone two. Having said that, the big two also would like our business and would offer discounts or contingencies which would be nice. Coordination with multiple divisions might allow those options. ARs are the only "ready to go" option but come at the cost of no trackside support. To me it's not problem but to some I'm sure it is. With the discount the VROC would be competitively priced if you would see yourself as paying someone to mount and balance the ARs.
Last week I updated the tire info that I'd gathered in the above post. I don't think that updating/editing a post causes it to show like a new post has been added to the thread.
This is all the info at this time. There are details that could be asked but they in turn will require some sense of how much support this Club Vee thing has. I'll post a separate thread concerning the ARRC in case other regions or divisions would like to use that as a jumping off point for some new regional class next year. Time is running out on that as a set of rules for just that event need to be submitted by Sept. 1.
I will try to contact some people to see if they are interested. Anyone else that has interest please contact those that you know that may feel the same. You can PM me or email to lee.wagner (at) corning.com. I'm not trying to sell this idea but I'm willing to do the leg work if there is enough interest in the SEDiv.
All is needed is for a few people to say "We need to make this happen!" instead of "it will never work" or "it is not feasible" or "we do not want to upset the tire companies".
Maybe we can't do this in National racing until we can enforce it but hopefully we could do this at the regional level. 
If it goes nowhere, no big deal. Nothing wasted other than a little bit of time and some phone calls.