Revamped National Racing Program and Runoff???

[Pat Hughey]

John,

When you go to a Reg/Nat race weekend you are already racing with the national level drivers in the regional race (at least that's the way it is in MiDiv). The best way to get better is to race against the best. As outlined above, as a regional driver you could still be racing for the regional win in the combined race format. This type of thing has been done in Pro F2000 and Pro FA in the past.

Pat

[veehive]

I wll echo John's sentiment: I prefer the current seperate Regional and National race system.

If a newbie wishes to compete at the National level, she-or-he can do so by applying directly for a National license from their Novice permit.

[24b4Jeff]

I think there is no hope for any substantial change to the runoffs, and certainly no change that would satisfy even the majority, so I will focus my comments on revamping the national schedules.

Davis makes a good point about running the runoffs at tracks where people want to go. I think the same applies to national racing. Tracks like Road America, Mid Ohio, Laguna Seca, Sears Point (aka Infineon), Charlotte (ake Lowe's), Road Atlanta, Mosport and VIR come to mind. But certainly not CMSP, Nelson Ledges or Slime Rock, in my opinion. I know some tracks that are dear to me are hated by others, but if one looks at entry list sizes over the years one gets a good hint.

The other thing I would suggest is to have more double nationals. This saves everybody time and money, and the latter is getting to be significant now that gas prices are becoming a significant part of the typical racer's budget. The only down side is that if you break badly and early, it's harder to recover.

[kevin willmorth]

I suggest that the real issue is too much uniformity between regional and national levels. When national racers dominate the regional races the show up for, over regional enthusiasts leaves the regional guys always feeling like back markers and hacks.

I know that all racing is supposed to be all out, and that anything short of total commitment should be rewarded with poor results... yada, yada, yada.... I still contend that attitude and approach is a large part of the decline in the sport. The number of competitors willing to prusue and all-out effort is diminishing rapidly, while those with the coin have found all new heights in spending to dominate, creating an upward pressure on the cost of racing, at a time when their are fewer and fewer willing to commit to the escalation.

I suggest that the Nationals be far more stringent in qualification and limited to 12 classes, with elliminations rounds at the event to trim the final car count to 24 at a four day event - no purchased practice days, only one practice day at the event. Qualification for the Nationals should be based on a structure founded on divisional car counts. To qualify the 10 should require a minimum of 15 cars accumulating points in the class, and to qualify for the nationals, you must have a top 8 finish in that class in at least 3 of the 6 scoring events, with only the top 4 of 6 counting to the points standing. To qualify 8 cars requires the division have at least 12 in the class, 6 requires 9, 3 requires 5, and any class with fewer than 5 does not qualify the division to send a participant to the Nationals. Further, any race that has a car count of less than 6 does not qualify as a National race in that class for that event. All of this creates pressure on National competitors to promote and bring racers out to the track, or risk the event and class being disqualified. This also brings back real prestige for those who do make the Nationals, not just those who win, creating a real goal for those at the top level of the enthusiast dog pile.

Qualifying for the Nationals should mean something - qualifying for the final race of the runoffs should mean even more - thus, finishing the runoffs should carry a far greater level of prestige in motor sport as a whole, not just within the SCCA. Winning the runoffs should be an accomplishment worthy of national motor sports news.... where today it is an almost an invisible accomplishment - which after all the time and investment, seems a real shame.

Meanwhile, at the regional level, while registered National level racers should certainly be welcome to come play, they should not accumulate points in the regional points or championship - one or the other, not both. This allows the regional - read more recreationally inclined, or lesser experienced - to a championship and race series of their own, unfettered by the over-the-top nut jobs in the National battle who dominate in experience, spending, etc....

I know, none of this will work, it makes no sense, and insults everyone on some level, etc...none of which was the intent. Just thinking out load... nothing more is intended to be read between these lines.

[FV80]

VERY few 'serious' national drivers ever take points at Regional events. Occasionally someone will simply forget to fill out the blasted paperwork required by SCCA ... and unfortunately, SCCA REFUSES to allow a driver to 'extricate' himself from the points list after the race (can't imagine why, but that's the way it is). It must be filled out IN ADVANCE *AND* personally handed to the Chief Steward or his representative. If SCCA would make this process less obtrusive, I'm sure more drivers would voluntarily DQ themselves from Regional points. A driver CAN DQ himself after the race by doing 'illegal' things (like not reporting to impound) however, SCCA insists that we 'abide by the rules' and will therefore apply points against a driver's license if he does such things.

I don't know why SCCA thinks it so important to not allow a driver to just go to T&S after the fact and say "please remove me from the final results as far as points go" ??
Steve

[kevin willmorth]

VERY few 'serious' national drivers ever take points at Regional events..... A driver CAN DQ himself after the race by doing 'illegal' things (like not reporting to impound) however, SCCA insists that we 'abide by the rules' and will therefore apply points against a driver's license if he does such things...

Your probably right. In Cendiv, you get your finishing and qualifying times expunged from the record for not having the proper sticker for the Div 5 series on your car, so by default remove yourself from the event results and regional standings, cool... I assume the participation is still reported to SCCA for those trying to maintain their license... who knows.

I am really beginning to see and understand why their are so many cars sitting in garages unused and collecting dust. In just the last three months, I have had four people tell me last season was their last in the SCCA. One is going over to vintage, one to NASA, one is moving to the Porsche Club, and is just quitting from dissapointment at how much he spent over the last 7 years, and how little he got from it. I don't know all that many people racing, so having this many of those I do know wandering off is more than a little troubling. Probably another topic.... sorry.

[Mad Dog Racing]

Dating myself here, but back in the "old days" the top tier drivers would just use the Saturday regional as a test day, trying a new setup or two and racing hard with the others until the last couple of laps, then pull in and let the second tier drivers take the trophies. Kind of hard to set where the break should be, it was kind of an honor system, if you thought you could trophy on Sunday, don't take one on Saturday. There are still a handful of drivers who do that, but often if they are in a tight race now, they want to do that last-lap test on a tough competitor. And the new guys aren't seeing it happen to do the same when they move up. Another thing, now trophy pickup is well below 50% anyway. Last time I trophied, I got a generic SCCA ballpoint pen, I think it's still in the glove compartment of my pickup. But at least it could be used unlike trophies.

As far as more double nationals, that's fine if all goes well. We had three N/N's and two R/N's last year. A big problem Saturday or an unexpected schedule upset in family or work and you have lost 25% of the season. So there is a risk along with the reward of less travel cost and you will end up paying for a test day on occasion to get the track time you need.

I still think you aren't going to improve the Runoffs participation by making the national racing better in the divisions, but you will certainly improve the national racing by making the Runoffs better. The big question is how to do that? There are a half-dozen views, some of them mutually exclusive, on how to improve the Runoffs. The BoD tends to take the path of offending the fewest people and sometimes that leads to no improvements.

[brian]

I think Butch has offerred some great ideas. Like Butch, I go back over 20 years and feel the Ruoffs just aren't what they used to be. I would offer one more idea, eliminate, as much as possible, Topeka staff envolvement. This isn't slam on any individuals but since the home office took over from the Atlanta region, costs have skyrocketed. When you combine all the demands placed on the hosting track and travel expense for staff, the costs are bound to go up. Have the hosting regions provide the bulk of organization with the assistance of staff and national administrators of each specialty. We really don't need 43 golf carts, tents and buildings.

The runoffs have become the 2nd largest source of income for Topeka. Second only to memberships. It is in Topeka's interest to raise revenues. Making it easier to qualify generates more entries but burdens local regions because local entries are reduced. While there may be some disagreement with the details, the hosting tracks pay Topeka for the privledge of having the Runoffs. There is no disagreement about where this money comes from: testing and parking fees are the major source of these funds. Topeka can't really control what the track charges, but is less than honest about not having a vested interest in these revenue streams.

Having just spent nearly $240 in fuel to attend a recent national tells me that travel costs are going to kill national racing. The idea of regionally located nationals makes a lot of sense.

[FV80]

Brian,
Interesting comment about travel costs associated with bringing National SCCA staff to the Runoffs venue ... and I agree. I don't see that the Runoffs are ONE BIT better now that National is 'handling' things. I also find it interesting that the cost to us of the Runoffs being in Topuka, is HIGHER than it was when it was at Mid Ohio - higher entry fees, more costly parking and garages, more costly test days. I guess the ONLY thing that's cheaper in Topuka might be hotels - but I don't use those - I take my house with me .

I WONDER why it doesn't cost US (the drivers who support this event) any LESS to have to travel to Topuka than it did anywhere else. Surely the travel costs for SCCA is down several 100 percent!! As I see it, the cost of test days and garages is DIRECTLY proportional to the amount that SCCA charges the track to host the event - that money is coming RIGHT out of the pocket of the participants and nowhere else. It's a nice idea to think that spectators would support some of that cost, but that's a real JOKE at Topuka.

Steve